Ep. 10 A Deadly Trip to Death Island, Thailand

Two young British tourists are found brutally murdered on a beach in the idyllic resort of Koh Tao, Thailand. With an investigation marred by incompetent policework, torture of suspects, and a contaminated crime scene, finding the killers turns into an international affair, earning Koh Tao the nickname “Death Island”.


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our transcript


Speaker 1 00:00

in a good place for you it feels like you’re trying to like


Speaker 2 00:03

Well, yeah, I mean it’s it’s fine shit the way you want to say


Speaker 1 00:08

Once you get as comfortable as you can.


Speaker 2 00:13

I don’t even know what that looks like. You know what, let me.


Speaker 3 00:17

That was like it’s been 15 years since I’ve been comfortable sitting and it’s correct


Speaker 1 00:21

Next, you’re going to ask me to take the rock out of my shoe. Pack your body bags. We’re going on a slaycation. On this show, we talk about murders and mysterious deaths that happened while on vacation.


Speaker 1 00:47

I’m your co -host, Adam Tex Davis, and as always, I’m joined by my lovely wife, Kim. And my buddy and producing partner, Jerry. I prefer office wife, Jerry. Hello. And just in case it’s your first time with us, the way it works is I don’t know anything about today’s case, so I’ll be learning along with you, the listener, as Kim and Jerry walk us through it.


Speaker 1 01:12

It’s kind of like our marriage. Yeah, I don’t know what’s going on there either.


Speaker 3 01:15

So you really know nothing about these cases, you really know that’s what we’ve set up but you really made a point to not know anything about these cases until we go through them.


Speaker 1 01:24

No, I’ve become very good at ignoring my wife and what she’s doing. All right. Before we start, actually, this is kind of an exciting day. It’s the first episode we’re recording since we launched Slaycation a couple days ago.


Speaker 1 01:36

Nice. And I think it’s going pretty well. People are finding it. They’re downloading it. Thank you. Thank you. And Slaycating. So thank you. Thank you. Yes, of course, not everybody was happy with us.


Speaker 1 01:48

Oh, a couple of reviews on the negative side. And I want to hear that shit. Right. Well, just like at home, I blame Kim. Of course, you know, the one you always get, how could you laugh about people being murdered?


Speaker 1 02:01

Which you see basically on every true crime podcast, like the reviews for every true crime podcast has somebody asking, how could you possibly laugh? How could you have fun? How could you be so insensitive?


Speaker 1 02:13

And this goes for the top rated shows in the genre all the way down the line. Wouldn’t you say so, Kim? Absolutely. Putting aside that a lot of these shows are accused of this, you know, obviously, we’re called Slaycation, which if this was the somber reflections of travel tragedies, maybe I could see somebody being a little upset.


Speaker 1 02:32

But I feel like when you buy a ticket to Slaycation, you kind of know what you’re getting into.


Speaker 3 02:36

i would go so far as to take a moment and read the description of the show which is uh Slaycation is a gripping and darkly comedic podcast that delves into the chilling world of murders that happen on vacation this unique and hilarious show will have you laughing gasping and exclaiming what the fuck as you go on a twisted journey through the wildest locations that will have you canceling your flight so it’s all


Speaker 1 02:56

right there. It is there. Let’s actually talk about this for a second, because there’s definitely two sides to this issue. You’ve got the how dare you laugh and add levity to this awfulness. And then there’s the people who love the jokes and dark humor.


Speaker 1 03:09

I mean, we worked on Bring Games. What’s going on, Jerry? What do you think? Why are people laughing? And why are other people upset about the way we’re handling it?


Speaker 3 03:17

I wonder if it’s situational like if someone is triggered by a particular story that maybe is too close to home or something that they’re particularly scared of or you know maybe those are cases where people hear that episode and they’re just like oh I don’t know how anyone could laugh at this.


Speaker 1 03:34

have episodes that are pretty dark that we don’t really laugh.


Speaker 3 03:37

We’ve had quite a few where there was just no opportunity for lightning the discussion, but I I also thought those are called less fun They’re less fun I mean, but they’re but they still fall under the you know The idea of what is a staycation and and really thinking about like are there opportunities to offer people any takeaway or tips?


Speaker 3 03:55

To how to you know, avoid these situations, but as far as why why do people like humor in these things? I mean, it’s this is life, you know, like these are horrible things that happen But in talking about them if there’s an opportunity to not be so heavy all the time It just makes it easier to talk about these things.


Speaker 3 04:12

I don’t think we’re ever making Fun of or poking fun at no at anybody But there is just some some opportunities for commie that naturally come up


Speaker 1 04:22

Right? What do you think, Kim? You listen to a ton of podcasts, True Crime, and they do run the more serious and the more jokey ones. What is your take?


Speaker 2 04:31

If it’s not working for you, that’s okay. I mean, if you need a more serious and you don’t want to hear people engaging or discussing their take on a situation, read a book. How about that?


Speaker 3 04:46

read a book you can watch some of these shows that are so serious right or some of these podcasts that are so serious and don’t have any opportunity for humor and it feels a little fakey fake it feels like a posture rather than


Speaker 2 04:59

Look, my perspective, really, I feel that those of us that are not here with us, like our victims, I feel that they’ve crossed over. I feel that they’re in a good place. It sounds cliche. I feel that they’re okay.


Speaker 3 05:13

Are they here with us now?


Speaker 2 05:14

I believe so. Yes. Right now, right next to you. No, I’m just kidding. And I think also a lot of what we do is for the people that are here. And with really heavy content, it feels like it makes sense to sort of keep it light.


Speaker 1 05:33

Like using it as a release.


Speaker 2 05:35

Right, exactly, exactly.


Speaker 1 05:38

That is the thing. I mean, when you take true crime and you turn it into entertainment, basically, you’re opening the door to it.


Speaker 2 05:46

much true crime I mean so much and I’ve listened to a range of podcasts where it was literally just somebody reading what just sounded like Wikipedia I’ve listened to that I’ve also listened to people literally heckling throughout the whole


Speaker 3 06:09

You mean cackling or hackling?


Speaker 2 06:10

Absolutely. Absolutely. So there’s that.


Speaker 1 06:13

True crime hosted by witches is what you’re saying. This next case.


Speaker 2 06:17

There’s, there’s, it runs the gamut, there’s so many different approaches.


Speaker 3 06:23

Also just put my like I don’t like true crime. I’m enjoying doing this show I think it’s very interesting But I still like as the genre to Kim’s point like a lot of it is really Dark and heavy. Yeah, and and and feels exploitive in some ways


Speaker 2 06:40

It kind of reminds you just how awful people are.


Speaker 3 06:43

Mm -hmm, but in a way that’s designed to just like keep you hooked and be like, oh, you know, like they’re so awful and right I don’t know


Speaker 2 06:49

I also think, at least for me, and that’s who I’m speaking for, it keeps my spider senses tingling. I mean, having sort of consumed this content my entire adult life, it has made me very aware of my surroundings.


Speaker 2 07:07

Even when I’m not particularly aware of the circumstances, I can pick up cues.


Speaker 1 07:12

Well, every time I open the knife drawer.


Speaker 2 07:14

Right, that’s a cue.


Speaker 1 07:18

Look, here’s the thing. I do love the people who love true crime, but are very serious about how they want to enjoy it and want to almost police how other people are allowed to present it or enjoy it.


Speaker 1 07:32

To your point, Kim, if it’s too jokey or too laughing, then maybe the show isn’t for you. I mean, again, it’s called Slaycation. And like Jerry said, it’s in the show notes that it’s darkly comic, but it is a thing you see on a lot of true crime podcasts.


Speaker 1 07:45

There’s somebody in the comments like I can’t believe they’re laughing. I can’t believe they’re so insensitive. And to be honest, I think you guys are very respectful. I’m the asshole making the show.


Speaker 3 07:53

You’re definitely the one who’s making jokes at people’s expense, but it’s like our marriage, but yes


Speaker 1 07:57

But I’m coping, you know, it’s a coping mechanism.


Speaker 3 08:00

Let’s say one more thing about Adam. You and I have been making shows for decades. So we’ve been on the receiving end of tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of reviews of our work. I love getting feedback and I love seeing it.


Speaker 3 08:11

But one thing that’s always interesting to me is the review, which is a non -review. When someone says, how can you guys be laughing during this episode or how can you be making jokes? It’s on the label.


Speaker 3 08:20

Like it says that that’s what this is. So it’s like your review is complaining that we did the exact thing that we’re promising you. So those are the reviews where I’m like, okay. That’s not really a review.


Speaker 3 08:31

That’s a, I just didn’t like the format. I personally only review things when I have something really positive to say because my assumption is if I don’t like it, then it just wasn’t for me. That doesn’t mean it’s bad.


Speaker 3 08:42

As a creator, I’ve come to realize like not everything you do.


Speaker 2 08:46

There’s a difference between constructive criticism than just being like, I don’t like it. Okay.


Speaker 3 08:55

I’m going to start reading reviews in that voice.


Speaker 2 08:57

That’s how I read all negative reviews. You should know, in everything, in anything.


Speaker 3 09:02

So listeners, if you want to, if you want to have that voice in our head, leave a one or two star review with some real negative comments and we will read it in that voice.


Speaker 1 09:12

So I will say, someone else did say there were too many side stories, could you just get to the cases? So right now they’re probably going through full murder withdrawal. So don’t worry, you’ll have your rush of sweet murder coursing through your veins in just a second.


Speaker 3 09:29

this is even this isn’t even a murder appetizer


Speaker 1 09:33

So kimmy sweetheart, where are we slaking today?


Speaker 2 09:37

Well, today our Slaycation takes us on holiday, as the Brits say, on the beautiful island of Koh Tao. Koh Tao, meaning Turtle Island, is known for its sandy white beaches, surrounded by crystal clear waters, topical coral reefs, and the Gulf of Thailand.


Speaker 2 09:59

Fun fact, on a sleepy island, it was once inhabited mostly by fishermen and farmers, and there was a period, too, when the island was used as a political prison. Koh Tao, today, sees most of its revenue from tourism, of young Westerners, typically, looking for the ultimate beach and backpacking experience.


Speaker 2 10:21

Known, too, for the full moon parties, which is at an adjacent island, but a lot of people will island hop, because it’s between two other islands in that area. So they’re known for that full moon party, and tourists attend those parties, particularly the young college students.


Speaker 2 10:42

And turtles. And turtles.


Speaker 3 10:45

Sorry, it’s a party where a lot of people come out of their shell.


Speaker 2 10:48

Yes, there you go. Yeah, so it’s about 260 miles or so away from the Thailand capital of Bangkok. The only way to get to Koh Tao is by boat. So it made sense when Hannah Ritheridge, along with three of her girlfriends, and David Miller, and two of his boys traveling to Thailand, would add this adorable all of eight miles of island to their travel itinerary.


Speaker 2 11:14

Hannah, her crew, and David and his posse arrived respectively to the island and checked into this place called the Ocean View bungalows, which was right on Sare Beach. And this was on September 12, 2014.


Speaker 2 11:30

The young women were in bungalow A5 and the young men in bungalow K8.


Speaker 1 11:36

Just one question real fast. They knew each other? No. These are two separate groups and how old are these people?


Speaker 2 11:43

So Hannah is 23 and David is 24. So they’re all within the same age group. They’re all still…


Speaker 3 11:51

Right studying or on break gotcha and they’re all from the States or so now Britain, right? Okay. Yeah, right Yeah, very like a super popular British. I see I see


Speaker 1 12:00

That’s why you said holiday earlier. Right. Oh, that was very cute, honey.


Speaker 2 12:05

I’m just adorable. Adorable. Anyway, so.


Speaker 3 12:10

It’s true, it’s true, you really are.


Speaker 2 12:14

And Hannah hailed from a place called Helmsby. It’s a seaside village in the County of Norfolk, England. And she had a degree in education, which she obtained from the University of Anglia. And Hannah was now working towards her masters in speech and language therapy.


Speaker 2 12:33

It was said that Hannah’s mom was not psyched with the idea of Hannah traveling to Thailand, but Miss Thing would not be deterred and booked her tickets. And she and her girls would board that flight to Bangkok on August 26, 2014.


Speaker 2 12:52

It sounds like Hannah had a blast visiting the jungle and staying with a tribe, visiting an elephant sanctuary where she had the opportunity to bathe them. She did a cooking course and was looking forward to treating her family to her newfound culinary skills.


Speaker 2 13:10

Ah -ha.


Speaker 1 13:11

some Thai food. Yes, yes. Now, how long was this trip supposed to be?


Speaker 2 13:15

I think it was gonna be like three, four weeks, like it was a long stretch. Oh, okay, not a quick joint. Yeah, no, no, please.


Speaker 3 13:23

that part of the world when you go there from the UK you usually want to stay for weeks because it’s such a such a schlep to get there.


Speaker 2 13:29

Right, and they’re hopping from they’re going from Thailand and going to the island and they’re going to another island probably for the film party


Speaker 3 13:38

David had already been out traveling for six weeks because he had worked at a mining company in Australia. And then he met up with his buddies to go on this vacation in Thailand. So he’s already been out for money.


Speaker 1 13:51

months at this point. Gotcha. So I assume that we’re on a crash course between Hannah and David here.


Speaker 3 13:56

No, we’re just telling you two different stories that have nothing to do with each other. Oh, okay. That’s our new thing. That’s cool. Yeah, it’s great. It’s very complicated. You’ll see. Parallel play.


Speaker 3 14:05

Yes. Okay.


Speaker 2 14:06

Yeah, I think David actually had just completed, I think it sounded like it was maybe a work study experience.


Speaker 3 14:13

Yeah, with the mining company in Australia, because he was going to civil engineering.


Speaker 2 14:17

Right, he was going to go back to school, so he was a student at the University of Leeds in England, and he was getting ready to complete the final leg of the course requirement for his master’s in civil and structural engineering.


Speaker 1 14:33

Alright, so these are two smart people. Smart people. Yes.


Speaker 3 14:35

And one other thing that I just mentioned about this island. So Kotow is very beautiful. It has, as Kim said, amazing marine life. It’s actually one of the most popular scuba destinations in Southeast Asia.


Speaker 3 14:47

And a lot of people, there’s a lot of dive operations there. It’s only 21 square kilometers, so it’s about eight square miles, very small. And one of the more interesting things to mention, which will be important later, is it’s got a very small population of locals.


Speaker 3 15:05

There’s a few thousand, three or four thousand local Thai people that live here.


Speaker 1 15:10

that live there? You say two or three thousand. That’s a thousand.


Speaker 3 15:13

It’s somewhere between 2 ,000 and 4 ,000 depending on the US, but very, very small local population. And then there’s another approximately 4 ,000 to 5 ,000 Burmese migrant workers. Burma is also Myanmar, same place.


Speaker 3 15:26

Of those, about half of them, around 2 ,000 to 3 ,000, are illegal immigrants who work there off the books and pay the police a little protection to stay there and work. The reason for that is it’s a very affluent area because of all the tourism.


Speaker 3 15:42

They get half a million visitors per year. Every month there’s 30 ,000 or 40 ,000 tourists bringing in tons of money.


Speaker 1 15:50

Wow, that’s crazy that the tourists like outnumbered the population by a huge factor, right? So they say in hotels or they stay in like huts on the jungle or others


Speaker 3 15:59

There’s there’s huts. There’s hotels. There’s a wide


Speaker 2 16:02

range of accommodations for every budget. You can spend as much as you want or as little as you want.


Speaker 1 16:10

But if I wanted to spend free you you probably could go there and hang out


Speaker 3 16:16

on the beach or whatever someone’s probably gonna say something cuz it’s very like that’s the other because it’s so small everybody kind of knows what’s going on and the other interesting thing about it is because it’s such a small island and a small population as you can imagine there are families right there’s family groups that control different aspects of the island.


Speaker 1 16:35

Right. I was gonna say how do you feed all these people? They’re not bring us to I mean, no, there’s


Speaker 2 16:40

restaurants, it’s an island that literally caters to tourists. Like, that’s the whole… Right. Yeah.


Speaker 1 16:46

But there’s just so many more people than.


Speaker 3 16:48

There’s fairy. Yeah, they fairy in a lot of stuff, right?


Speaker 2 16:50

You can only get there really by boat right imagine


Speaker 1 16:54

It’s like a cruise ship only on land on land, you know, yeah kind of it’s like you got a crew and then you got thousands of


Speaker 3 17:00

You could say the same thing about New York City, like how do you feed all these people? You bring all the food? Right. Like everything comes on revenue.


Speaker 2 17:06

so David and Hana are on this island and David Miller is from Jersey oh what excite don’t get excited other yeah it’s a part of the British Isles the real Jersey


Speaker 1 17:24

So that’s a high exit.


Speaker 2 17:25

It’s a part of the British Isles. It’s part of the Channel Islands and is located between England and France. In any event, a holiday on the island with its scenic hilltop views sounded like the perfect way for David to kick back, relax, party, get his mind right.


Speaker 3 17:44

There’s literally nothing going on on this island other than tourism. Right. That’s it. Just like water sports and jungle hikes and a lot of a lot of dive operations. Right. And there’s also a little bit of a mix between locally owned businesses and businesses owned by foreign nationals.


Speaker 3 18:02

So most of the bars, hotels and stuff are owned by locals and local families. But there are a handful of dive operations and bars that are run by British people, expats, who, let alone clear on how that works exactly.


Speaker 3 18:17

But there’s a sense that in order to run a business there, if you’re not from there, you have to be helpful to the families that run the island.


Speaker 1 18:29

That’s also a coded way or a coded word is that like a just kick back or you talk well


Speaker 3 18:35

So some people refer to the, to the, to the, the, the families there as the co -town mafia cartel, because that would be, no, they say it would be perfect. If they said co -town cartel, they don’t talk to say they say co -town mafia.


Speaker 2 18:48

that’s the nickname it’s of course not the mafia in the traditional sense what we think of when you hear the word but just the sense of control


Speaker 4 19:00

The Hargan women seem to have it all from the outside looking in. We were blessed. My mom was amazing But as detectives would soon learn there was a lot going on inside the Hargan household


Speaker 2 19:12

Ashley and I have been calling my mom in the house in Helen. No one’s answering.


Speaker 4 19:18

63 -year -old Pamela Hargan gunned down in her own home. Her youngest daughter Helen lay dead upstairs.


Speaker 2 19:25

Patrol, when they arrived, assumed or thought that there might have been


Speaker 3 19:29

and murder suicide.


Speaker 4 19:30

but for the detectives on the scene. There were things about the scene itself that were concerning to us on day one. Who would want to kill their mother and their little sister? There is no boogeyman here.


Speaker 4 19:42

It is exactly who we think it is. I’m Peter Vance, sat from 48 Hours. This is Blood is Thicker, the Hargan Family Killings. Listen to Blood is Thicker, the Hargan Family Killings, wherever you get your podcasts.


Speaker 5 20:00



Speaker 2 20:01

So Hannah and David and their little squad met and were kind of


Speaker 1 20:07

surviving. Wait, so this is like a big moment, right? We brought our two protagonists together. How do they meet?


Speaker 2 20:13

they’re in the same resort. You know, you have a group of cute girls and a group of nice -looking guys. It would make sense that they would…


Speaker 1 20:23

So Hannah and David kind of hit it off.


Speaker 2 20:24

Well, they hit it off, but you know, I got the sense that they were mostly friends. It didn’t feel like it was this romantic, you know, at least that’s not what I got. I think I didn’t get that either.


Speaker 3 20:37

It seemed like the groups met right as like and they hit it off


Speaker 2 20:41

and they were all having fun.


Speaker 1 20:42

And then neither of them had other significant others. I guess he had a girlfriend. He did. Well, that, you know, maybe that’s the reason for what there was nothing beyond friends, maybe he’s a nice guy.


Speaker 3 20:53

He does seem actually by all accounts to be a very nice guy right people back in the UK I’ll say he’s a super sweet Compassionate nice guy. She’s a real bubbly The pandemic has been a


Speaker 2 21:04

fun girl. They had first gone to this bar called Choppers. There’s actually a picture online of all of them together at this bar that I believe was called Choppers. And it’s just this lovely picture of the whole group smiling and, you know, having what appears to be a really…


Speaker 2 21:22

It’s gonna get sad.


Speaker 1 21:23

How can you laugh at this, Kim?


Speaker 2 21:27

Unbelievable. Yeah. So the picture has a group of good looking young 20 something year olds sitting around this table and fresh face, Hannah and David smiling, looking like they’re having a good best time.


Speaker 1 21:41

Right. Where does it go wrong, Kim?


Speaker 2 21:42

So after which video surveillance would have images of the friends going in separate directions, Ana was seen with her friends wearing a cute little pink top, white shorts, and her and her friends were headed to the AC bar.


Speaker 2 21:58

And David was spotted on two occasions on video surveillance. He is seen for the first time walking and then approached by a man who they seem to high -five and have a friendly exchange. And about a half hour later, David is seen walking in the opposite direction with what looks like to be with a couple of tourists, not his friends that he was, But back towards the AC bar.


Speaker 2 22:24

Right. Yes. Right. And the group of friends would reunite with David and his friends and they would meet up with the gals at the AC bar. Okay.


Speaker 3 22:35

And one important point, and tell me if I think I got this right, is that everything closes relatively early in this town, except the AC bar. The AC bar is where you go when everything else is done bar, which also means there’s a lot of stuff going on at the bar.


Speaker 3 22:57

Anybody who’s up at that hour and has business to do or anything to take care of is going to be at that bar.


Speaker 1 23:03

Can you be a lot more specific?


Speaker 3 23:05

I will be more specific. Is this an okay time to be more? So one of the things that’s happened in in this kotau over the last 20 years is that meth has made an appearance on the island. AC bar is a bar that was known as a place that you know you could get and do meth.


Speaker 3 23:22

It’s also where the air quotes kotau mafia would hang out because the owner of the AC bar is also the mayor of kotau. The island chief was what they called him basically like the mayor but he’s also the head of the family that’s kind of like the family that controls most of kotau.


Speaker 3 23:49

So he’s the tony soprano. He is the tony soprano of kotau and the ac bar is the bada bing club. okay great it’s not a strip club right i mean it’s like locals


Speaker 1 24:02

and Taurus both go there. Stripping is no good. Meth is more their flavor. It’s not that it’s a meth bar. What do you mean it’s not a meth bar? I mean, I’m not saying you go up and you order two meths, please.


Speaker 1 24:12

But I’m saying, like.


Speaker 3 24:13

Things can get really messy, right?


Speaker 1 24:18

I did the meth at One Plus One.


Speaker 3 24:20

One other interesting note is where a lot of the and I’m you I’m gonna say I’m using this term not in a pejorative way This is a term that is used in Thailand and is not meant to be pejorative lady boys Hmm hang out at this bar


Speaker 1 24:36

Gotcha Kim. Yes. What’s your feeling on lady boys?


Speaker 2 24:40

I do you that’s my have no thank you.


Speaker 3 24:45

man on my use of the term. It’s very, it’s very hard to speak freely in America now.


Speaker 1 24:51

I’ve already cancelled Jerry. I’m not even looking at him anymore.


Speaker 3 24:56

And lady boys in Thailand means like it’s people that men who live their life as a woman doesn’t necessarily mean they do drag or trans, it’s like a very specific lifestyle.


Speaker 1 25:07

Okay, so you’ve got this club right which has a Confluence of things, right? All right, Kim


Speaker 2 25:17

So at about 2 .15 a .m. David and Hannah were seen leaving the bar heading towards their bungalow.


Speaker 1 25:26

Okay, and their friends are nowhere to be found


Speaker 2 25:29

their friends are still hanging out meth lady boys whatever you know it could be but my take was they were calling it a night it was like you know what let’s just tana and david were yeah okay it’s like we’re gonna just go back and


Speaker 1 25:43

There’s only so much you can take of that, right?


Speaker 3 25:47

Just want to I just want to be clear That nothing is meant to say that any of these people we’re talking about we’re doing any of that stuff at the bar That is true. That is a it is a it is the bar that you go to late at night drinks


Speaker 2 25:59

It’s the culture of…


Speaker 3 26:01

It’s not not to say that anyone was doing any of that cuz they weren’t But just to sort of paint the picture of where they were right and and sort of potentially plays into some of what happens But these kids they were just like hanging out having drinks.


Speaker 3 26:13

I was not implying anything. I was just I already I’m now I’m so sensitive to reviews. I can see them coming. God. Yeah, Jerry said


Speaker 2 26:20

You guys need to relax. Okay. Thank you. Can breathe. Let’s breathe together. Okay. Yeah Moving on so it was in the early hours of The morning just before dawn on September 15th 2014 Beach cleaner was going about the business of cleaning the beach of trash garbage When she would happen upon


Speaker 1 26:46

You were just listing, you were listing other synonyms for garbage. It was pretty funny, yeah. Debris. Sorry. Are you done?


Speaker 2 26:57

time are you done you can look at his face


Speaker 1 26:59

Are you done? I’m gonna wait till you start talking. Do you need a minute?


Speaker 2 27:04

Wow, okay. So she would happen upon what would no doubt be a horror. She came upon two bloody, semi -new, badly beaten bodies of David Miller, whose body was floating in the water. And Hannah, who was about 13 yards away, lay bloodied on the shore near the rocks on Sare Beach, just steps away from their bungalow.


Speaker 1 27:32

Wow. Both of them. Holy moly. I thought one was going to do the other and gee whiz. That sucks.


Speaker 2 27:39

And also on the scene was what was presumably the murder weapon, which was a garden hoe covered in blood and nearby a wooden club. Garden hoe.


Speaker 1 27:50

Yeah, and a wooden club. Yes, and they you said they were beaten to death. Yes. Gotcha. Yes


Speaker 2 27:58

It was interesting, because according to a report that I read, her face was so badly beaten, it was unrecognizable.


Speaker 1 28:07

How do they, I mean like I say, fingerprints or whatever.


Speaker 2 28:11

I’m not sure. I mean, I guess they, of course, ended up figuring that out, but it was it was just a really bloody right.


Speaker 1 28:19

Okay, now I’m angry and I want to know who did it and do they get caught?


Speaker 2 28:23

But that’s a whole other freak show. Of course. So post -mortem examination on the body showed that both David and Hannah sustained severe blunt force trauma to the head, neck, and face. And David had salt water in his lungs, which is indicative of drowning.


Speaker 2 28:42

And Hannah was covered in what appeared to be defensive wounds, because of course, she’s trying to defend herself. Right. And was reportedly raped.


Speaker 1 28:53

Does this seem like a gang attack or is this this doesn’t sound like one person could do all this?


Speaker 2 28:58

it’s unlikely that it was just one person. The police came, there’s only six police officers in this island, so they’re not really equipped with dealing with this type of thing. They’re not known for their investigative skills.


Speaker 2 29:18

It’s not Scotland Yard?


Speaker 3 29:21

They don’t have a forensics expert for a car.


Speaker 2 29:24

no no i mean one of the things or siren that


Speaker 3 29:27

They ride there on a fish, actually.


Speaker 2 29:29

Right. The crime scene was not properly secured. It was not secured at all.


Speaker 1 29:35

They don’t have tape. They don’t have anything. No, I’m just kidding. This sucks. Sweet, there’s six cops. Right.


Speaker 2 29:42

on the whole island. Right.


Speaker 3 29:43

And the crime scene is tourists, other people, workers, everyone’s just walking around the crime scene. Yeah.


Speaker 2 29:49

I mean, by the time, you know,


Speaker 1 29:51

It’s got to be pretty shocking like this places is like sort of nice and I mean I assume with six cops then Bad stuff doesn’t happen very often


Speaker 2 30:00

Well, you’d think, but that’s a whole other story. That could be a season.


Speaker 3 30:06

Oh really? Yeah, this island could be a ceiling.


Speaker 2 30:08

Season of locations just CSI


Speaker 1 30:11



Speaker 3 30:12

That’s how. Don’t don’t.


Speaker 1 30:14

Catow wow six very overworked cops trying to manage


Speaker 2 30:22

having to get investigators in from the mainland to help them with this.


Speaker 3 30:27

So remember, this is a tourism island. That’s all they do, okay? So when you ask things like, do things, bad things happen here a lot? It actually almost doesn’t matter because by design, these kinds of islands are designed to sweep it and make everything.


Speaker 3 30:42

It’s an accident, or a boating accident, or they tripped, right?


Speaker 2 30:47

the last thing they want to do is be like, oh, two tourists, we’re bludgeoned and beaten to death.


Speaker 3 30:53

just tourists but like these two kids are like the faces this is who goes to this island like british people in their 20s and 30s like hanging out these kids when you look at you like these are the people you’d put on the poster for this this is the last thing you want hey these they came here for a nice time and ended up murdered on the beach like it’s it’s it’s just it’s just not how these places are built to uh talk about these kind of things how do you spoke


Speaker 1 31:19

could tell.


Speaker 2 31:20

K -O -H, space, T -A -O. Yeah, I mean, law enforcement. Oh my God. Yeah, I mean, law enforcement was so clearly out of their depth here. It was just, I mean, there were people trampling the crime scene, taking pictures.


Speaker 2 31:37

Oh my God. Selfies. No. Yes, I mean, there were images already online. And they’re mad at us for laughing. That is correct, yes.


Speaker 3 31:49

You can sort of see why they did it, but also it’s a bad move as a, as a cop is, um, they moved the bodies because the tide was coming in. Right. So they dragged the bodies up the beach so the tide wouldn’t take them out, which you kind of get why you would do that.


Speaker 3 32:05

But it also is, it’s just, you, at that point you’ve, you’ve so completely tainted the crime scene. Right.


Speaker 1 32:11

But he was in the water. I mean, he could get taken away. That’s right. So she was not but what are you supposed to do? I don’t know. Tie a little anchor. I don’t know. Yeah.


Speaker 3 32:20

I’m not I’m not saying you did the wrong thing necessarily didn’t help didn’t help the investigation yet. Right CSI could tell the point is they made a decision that then just further complicated the ability to do forensics.


Speaker 2 32:33

really an experience and just… Right.


Speaker 3 32:36

Do you hear what he’s doing over there? Catastrophe? He’s trying to do puns? Yeah. Are you- should we know?


Speaker 1 32:41

I’m ignoring it somebody said that they like so the puns That’s for you, that’s for you five -star the Unlover 3000 catastrophe


Speaker 2 32:53

Anyway, well the the the did you hear about this the the Thailand prime minister weighed in oh with a


Speaker 3 33:01

We see. Oh my god.


Speaker 2 33:04

Okay, so wait, I got the quote right here. I have to read it.


Speaker 3 33:08

This is the quote from the Thailand prime minister that you’re like if someone said this in America Well, if a non -republican said this in America, they would be removed from office, right? Get ready.


Speaker 3 33:20

Okay, so


Speaker 2 33:21

Tourists think that Thailand is beautiful, safe, and that they can do whatever they want here. That they can put on their bikinis and go anywhere they want. I ask, can you get away with wearing bikinis in Thailand?


Speaker 2 33:42

Only if you are not beautiful.


Speaker 3 33:50

This was the prime minister’s comment on the case.


Speaker 2 33:53

Oh my God, that’s…


Speaker 1 33:58

I can’t improve that.


Speaker 3 33:59

Yeah I was like waiting, you got nothing.


Speaker 1 34:00

I can’t improve that that is every word is deliciously wrong now. It’s insane. It’s a festival. Yeah terrible Wow


Speaker 2 34:11

Really, what he’s saying is Hana is fucking gorgeous in her bikini, which she was not even wearing. Can I just say that? Yeah, she was.


Speaker 3 34:21

I was not wearing.


Speaker 1 34:22

If he wasn’t wearing a bikini, he was dead too. Nobody was wearing bikinis. But I guess the idea is that they had to kill him to get to her because of her bikini. Fuck me, man. Holy moly. But she wasn’t wearing a bikini.


Speaker 1 34:38

So obviously, yeah, right.


Speaker 2 34:42

But anyway, so, but to be fair…


Speaker 1 34:44

He likes fat chicks.


Speaker 2 34:45

No, to be fair. He apologized. He did apologize for for that comment. What was his apology quote? Like, oh, you know, just be safe in case I offended any.


Speaker 1 34:59

Anybody who’s hotter than a six, I am sorry, I am so sorry.


Speaker 2 35:05

But the funny thing is the funny thing is and there’s so many there’s so many stupid comments That were made just reading. I came across One stupid comment after another that just blew my mind Where was these comments?


Speaker 1 35:25

You mean like on YouTube videos?


Speaker 2 35:26

I’ll get to the stupid comments, but that certainly was the start of it.


Speaker 1 35:31

When you say stupid comments, you mean crass, or…


Speaker 2 35:34

Just comments that made you ask yourself, well, why would you be saying that?


Speaker 1 35:39

more blame the victim type comments or which is what the type president was basically


Speaker 2 35:43

Yeah, a lot of that, a lot of, you know, so, for example, when the Thai police were investigating, there came a certain point where they, you know, would speak to the press about what was going on. And one of them said, a Thai person would not do this.


Speaker 2 36:02

It’s like, what are you talking about?


Speaker 3 36:04

about and they said that specifically because they were the reporters were saying who are you investigating who are your suspects and they said we’re looking at all of the illegal Burmese legal and illegal Burmese right and we’re looking at all of the foreign nationals because a Thai person would never do this


Speaker 2 36:22

Another crazy thing.


Speaker 1 36:23

What would a Thai person do?


Speaker 3 36:24

Another say something stupid like the Prime Minister right exactly like not a


Speaker 1 36:29

They’re not a good example of… Right. They would just make fun of her. Wait.


Speaker 2 36:32

Another peculiar thing was when they were talking about the investigation, one of the comments the police were saying about, oh, you know, we’re going to find who did this and we’re not going to scapegoat anyone.


Speaker 2 36:45

And it’s like, what?


Speaker 1 36:47

Oh, so these are, you’re talking about comments from the law enforcement.


Speaker 2 36:50

Right, like just comments like through the research of this case, there were just certain comments.


Speaker 1 36:56

I thought you meant like people’s comments, like idiots, like outsiders. Oh no, no, no, no. Just like within. Well, they take their cue from their president and I guess everybody’s just a fucking moron, so.


Speaker 2 37:06

Right, well, right, so there was that comment of, yes, well, you know, there will be no scapegoating, we will not be, and it’s like, why are you saying that? Unless, previously, we did scapegoat, but this.


Speaker 3 37:18

Which was a known, a fairly well -known issue with Kotow. You need to blame the Burmese. Yeah, Kotow and other places, other places like this in Thailand, where whenever there’s a crime, it’s always the migrant worker.


Speaker 3 37:30

Of course. Right? It’s never the Thai person. Right. And the police were very excited to close this case. They wanted this to be- Well, they wanted it to go away, of course. Well, of course.


Speaker 2 37:43

I mean, look, they had questioned David’s friends. And what was also interesting was that they questioned the AC bar manager, who’s actually The Tony Soprano guy? Well, no, but a relative, he’s a relative, but they questioned him and the police chief that was running the investigation had said, well, you know, we have CCTV footage that resembles that gentleman.


Speaker 2 38:11

And another gentleman, which I believe was his nephew, and they had seen in the running man video, which is essentially somebody walking towards where the bodies were fine and then running away.


Speaker 1 38:26

Oh, so not Arnold Schwarzenegger.


Speaker 2 38:29

Not the dance. No, no. And it was in this time where that comment was made, where we won’t be scapegoating. And interestingly enough, they was looking for the gentleman that was seen running. He was actually the son of the man that owned the bar.


Speaker 1 38:52

Uh -huh was he carrying a bloody garden hoe? No, he was just running. No, but there was but he’s running away from the crime scene around the time


Speaker 3 39:00

Well, he’s running, it’s circumstantial in the sense that he’s definitely running from the direction where the crime happened, but it’s just a CCTV on a street, so we don’t know why he’s running. We just know that we see this guy running, but we do know that a bunch of people said there was a fight, an argument at that bar between David Miller and someone at the bar, someone who worked at the bar.


Speaker 2 39:24

Ah, there was a report that the three of them had had some sort of some kind of


Speaker 1 39:29

Could the fight have been about her?


Speaker 2 39:32

I don’t know. That’s not clear.


Speaker 3 39:33

unclear like it could have been there’s theory one theory that it could have been over her that that the guy who runs the Bar was into her and She said no and David stepped in to help that one theory another theory is that So one of one of the interesting wrinkles about this bar is that they tend not to give change to foreigners So if your beer is $3, I’m using American, huh?


Speaker 3 39:58

If your beer is $3 and you give them $10 your beer is $10 It’s like that kind of and if you make a stink it’s like


Speaker 1 40:06

like how like when we give our daughter money to go buy something and she wants to buy a three dollar thing and we give her a 20 and it costs 20.


Speaker 3 40:15

It’s sort of famous for that, like, you know, and these guys can be a little intimidating and be like, no, that’s, we’re good. We’re not giving you any change. You’re good. Please walk away from my bar.


Speaker 3 40:24

So there’s a theory as well that maybe that happened to David or her and he.


Speaker 1 40:30

Pro tip, you get around that by just making sure you order up to the amount of what you have. If you have $20, go to $20 worth of beer.


Speaker 3 40:38

not helpful for anyone in this room or victims. But thank you. Okay, that’s your takeaway. That’s my kit. Your income. That’s my guitar. Right.


Speaker 2 40:48

Yeah. He was the manager of the bar. His name was Montjuat Tovician, I believe, if I’m pronouncing it right, probably not. Right. This is the right.


Speaker 1 40:59

This is the Tony Soprano? Yeah. Okay.


Speaker 2 41:01

and his nephew, his name was Warwat, they would call him Namsad.


Speaker 1 41:08

You said, is it nephew or son?


Speaker 2 41:11

the bar manager and his nephew. So.


Speaker 1 41:14

Oh, I see. And then the sun was the one running away.


Speaker 2 41:17

Right, apparently the two of them were seen on CC TV.


Speaker 1 41:22

which it feels like the work of more than one person, so maybe, maybe, maybe.


Speaker 2 41:26

this particular investigator had essentially called them out.


Speaker 3 41:33

Because he had heard that there was an altercation, he saw this stuff on the CCTV, and he knows that these guys, this family that runs the AC bar, there’s a history of some violence and some stuff with them that is familiar to the locals.


Speaker 2 41:51

And there’s an interesting tidbit, too, is that there’s a whole book written on just this thing called The Curse of Turtle Island. And they do a whole deep dive into this whole thing, the culture, this family, the culture.


Speaker 2 42:09

And she was actually a foreigner that lived on the island. Of course, she’s exiled now, and there’s a warrant out for her arrest. She’s not there anymore.


Speaker 1 42:18

since there’s only six cops, it’s probably likely that she’s there now. Wait, what you were gonna say, so the investigator basically jumped in and was like.


Speaker 3 42:27

So this investigator just on the basis of like we know that these kids were at this bar at the end of the night We know there was an altercation We know that the people that run the bar like the sort of connected family and co -tow who have a history of violence Usually directed against Burmese workers, but there’s a history So this investigator was like oh I should look into these people right because they may have done this thing right right, but well


Speaker 2 42:50

Well, well, well, what a coincidence. He gets taken off the case. Suddenly, when he starts naming names.


Speaker 3 43:01

He’s out. No, he’s not allowed to ask questions. He’s taken off the case. I know, right.


Speaker 1 43:06

This investigator is not local, he’s from Thailand.


Speaker 3 43:09

I believe he is from from the mainland from Bangkok. Okay. Yeah


Speaker 2 43:13

Yeah, I mean but for whatever reason removed he was removed. He was no more and they bought in somebody new and Just as they got somebody new on the scene They’ve got some new suspects


Speaker 1 43:31

Burmese. What? Fuck it. Build a wall.


Speaker 3 43:38

So then they look at this other footage where they see these three guys on a motorcycle Headed in the direction of this beach. Okay around the same time. They see these guys stop at 7 -eleven on the cctv They know that they buy cigarettes and beer, right?


Speaker 3 43:51

Yeah, and then they see from that Uh, 7 -eleven they had to sorry beach, which is where the the crime happened. Uh -huh And sorry beach essay ir. Gotcha And then you see two of them head Off you don’t see them actually go to the beach, but you see them leave camera And then the third guy this whose name is mao mao, okay He rides the motorcycle off in another direction.


Speaker 3 44:17

Okay away from the beach, right? Okay And so the cops go and this is now weeks. This is weeks later Yeah, right. So the cops now decide even though they’ve had this cctv footage for weeks. They’re like these must be the guys Right, right.


Speaker 3 44:32

So they go to mao mao they interrogate him and he says I don’t I went to see my girlfriend I have no idea where these other guys went. They live they live with him, right? Um, he’s like they were home sleeping when I got home so The cops come back the next day and raid the home and they find Zalyn or Zalyn who is a Burmese a young Burmese guy is 22 years old They decide that he is now a suspect.


Speaker 3 45:02

Okay based on they saw a video They he was on a motorcycle. There’s a lot of there


Speaker 1 45:08

There’s a lot of video on this island, I will say. There is a lot. There is a lot of surveillance. Except for the one spot where the murder happened. They got everything else. The whole… They found the dead zone.


Speaker 3 45:19

Yeah, there’s no there’s no evidence at all linking this guy to the murder. Okay, it’s just it’s just we need to find somebody and this Okay, these guys were on video. Well certainly feels that way right?


Speaker 3 45:30

It’s what happened to mom feels that way Mama was free because he’s mama has been interrogated, but he has an alibi And you see him on the motorcycle heading in the other direction, right? And then the third guy who’s on that motorcycle is named waifu, right?


Speaker 3 45:44

Why what? Yeah, why so so they’re looking for this third guy who’s another Burmese immigrant 22 years old and They find him on the boat. That’s about to head They think someone says oh he already left for that for a new job on the mainland Mm -hmm, but then they find him on the boat.


Speaker 3 46:01

They say they say that he’s hiding. Uh -huh the next boat That’s supposed to be the mainland the police say he was hiding on the boat. He was like you could just be scared He’s like it’s like I have another job.


Speaker 3 46:12

I mean, I’m not right. I’m not trying to run anywhere, right? You know and it sort of begs the question like if these guys were trying to to disappear they had weeks to do it Right, but they’re yeah


Speaker 1 46:23

There was no evidence. There was no blood. There was no clothes. There was no…


Speaker 3 46:26

They have DNA from her body. Yeah, so they’ve taken those samples. They don’t have any they did not test the clothes They did not test clothes. They tested cigarettes like three cigarettes


Speaker 2 46:36

that were there.


Speaker 1 46:37

on the scene right okay


Speaker 3 46:38

But cigarettes, this is a popular beach near a hotel, so.


Speaker 1 46:42

Right, cigarettes are everywhere.


Speaker 2 46:44

But what’s interesting, too, is that when they were when the previous investigator had set his sights on the crime family or the right.


Speaker 1 46:54

The bar, the bar people, the bar owners. And his nephew. Right.


Speaker 2 46:58

Very coincidentally, Namsad had managed to catch a boat and get off the island.


Speaker 3 47:06

Yeah, the son of Tony Soprano. Right. The running man. Yeah.


Speaker 2 47:11

Yeah, he managed to get off the island. So now, at least at that point.


Speaker 1 47:16

They couldn’t even talk to him.


Speaker 3 47:16

Right, but he he had his his explanation or their explanation was he had I think school


Speaker 2 47:22

Well, this was the thing, so it turned out, well, he ends up showing up with an attorney with footage that says, oh, no, I was at school. Right. At university in Bangkok. Right. So, see this footage.


Speaker 1 47:37

You don’t seem convinced Kim, why do you think it was him?


Speaker 2 47:41

Well, word on the street is that that video looked doctored. There was something with the timestamp and something with even the arrangement of the furniture. Apparently, it was suspected that this was in his apartment in Bangkok.


Speaker 1 48:01

Pretending to be a school? Yeah. Gotcha.


Speaker 3 48:04

The other thing is he comes back to the island with his attorney and says, take my DNA test, but to the local cops, who are controlled by his family.


Speaker 1 48:12

Gotcha, right. So that’s just I mean look the murder itself feels like really brutal It was almost like personal, right?


Speaker 2 48:23

No, it, it, it was.


Speaker 1 48:24

revenge or


Speaker 2 48:26

The way that this author described the scene and the way that she described it was just horrendous. She gave such a detailed account of what she had seen in the pictures. It was just mind -blowing to think that you could just do that to somebody that you don’t know.


Speaker 3 48:53

It looks primal, like it’s insane.


Speaker 1 48:56

Well, if you watch the Sopranos, Tony Soprano and his crew do some pretty bad things.


Speaker 3 49:01

Tourists like they’re not


Speaker 1 49:02

I’m saying the people that might have perpetrated this right, you know, but at the same time it’s so bad for business Right to do that. It feels like why would you do that? Why leave bodies laying around?


Speaker 1 49:12



Speaker 2 49:13

you know the thing is too it this is also why the people on the island that I guess you could say run the show and they don’t care well it’s it’s not so much that they don’t care it’s just that it’s here’s what they do they blame it on everyone else it’s not us it’s not us it’s like it’s the immigrants we have to


Speaker 1 49:35

Still, but still it’s bad though. I mean, it got out, right?


Speaker 2 49:39

It got out, but you know look anybody that’s capable of doing something like this They’re not thinking about the good of Anything they’re not thinking about the good of humanity. They’re not thinking about the good of anything very true So whatever the hell that was I don’t know


Speaker 1 49:55

But so wait, do they ever catch anybody? Yeah, well they


Speaker 3 50:00

They have at this point, they have WIFO and Zalem.


Speaker 2 50:03

looking very hard at them.


Speaker 3 50:06

They have them in custody.


Speaker 1 50:08

Did you how much longer after this happened did where are we in the few weeks after weeks? Okay. Yeah


Speaker 3 50:14

And they did DNA testing, which…


Speaker 2 50:17

done on a whole bunch of the locals, the Burmese.


Speaker 3 50:21

Yeah, they rounded up 200 Burmese people and tested their DNA, which maybe we’ll find somebody and they’ve also got to start somewhere. The other thing is they did DNA testing on Hannah’s body, but not her clothes.


Speaker 3 50:36

And they did it very quickly. Like it was they said overnight, we have DNA figured out. OK, which is very unusual, because when you have multiple when you have multiple DNA is combined, which in this case, you have at least two or three, maybe four.


Speaker 3 50:53

Usually it takes weeks.


Speaker 1 50:55

I’m surprised they even have a lab there.


Speaker 2 50:58

Oh, I’m sure they don’t, I’m sure it gets sent out, yeah.


Speaker 1 51:01

Right, they use the meth lab doubles as DNA


Speaker 3 51:04

and Mal now comes in he’s like I got a match so they have these guys in custody and they confess


Speaker 2 51:12

October 21st, 2014. Like a real confession? Yes. Beaten out of them. Oh. Yes. They confess to the murders.


Speaker 3 51:20

They claim that they came upon them. They were on the beach. Why and Zaw were hanging out playing music on the beach, went for a walk, came upon David and Hannah kissing, became aroused, so overcome with emotion and arousal that they beat him and then beat her and then raped her.


Speaker 3 51:42

This is their confession. Wow. The police claim that there is a DNA match of their DNA to semen found on her body and to the bloody hoe and that cigarettes that are near her body.


Speaker 2 51:54

And they’re going to just, you know, tidy this up and just.


Speaker 1 51:58

And these thing these these objects did they mean anything to these people like where they gardeners and they had the hoe or This was just shit. They found nearby


Speaker 2 52:09

Just a pretty random, it seemed like a weapon of opportunity.


Speaker 3 52:13

Gotcha. One other weird side note is…


Speaker 2 52:16

So one of them had cited that they had happened upon a phone that was belonging to David Miller and sold it.


Speaker 3 52:28

trying to sell it or so it’s unclear but that’s but he would be charged with that as well right but what’s interesting is prior to that they claim the media had said the police reported that the phone was given to the police by a friend of David but then in trial the prosecutors say that the phone was found smashed at the house of one of their friends we have three totally different stories about this phone gotcha so that’s weird and they’re all coming from prosecution and police right


Speaker 1 53:01

And when you say police you mean the six police on the in the kit. Okay. Yeah


Speaker 3 53:06

So these guys confess to all of this the two the two guys the two the two Burmese 22 year old migrant workers Totally fixed right everything’s good everything is great We’ll come back to your nothing to see here continue with your diving vacations.


Speaker 3 53:21

Everything’s cool except


Speaker 2 53:24

December 8th, 2014, they would formally be charged with this, with rate illegally entering the country without documentation and the phone, and the phone’s theft.


Speaker 1 53:36

Not the murder. No. Oh, of course. Yeah. Okay. You said the other three. I was like, wait, what?


Speaker 3 53:40

So, um, Mianamar sends a, a legal team to Thailand to help these guys and to figure out what’s going on because they’re, they feel like they’re being railroaded. Well, they just, they just want to figure out what’s going on because these guys are Burmese citizens working overseas.


Speaker 3 53:55

Wow. And so while they care, I think about, because it’s a reputation of, of Mianamar is, is like at stake, if you’re saying these guys are just running around doing horrible things. So they send this out of strip.


Speaker 2 54:08

The interesting thing, too, I mean, did you see pictures? The guys look so small. They’re tiny. They’re tiny guys. And David apparently was the sixth. Well, he looked like a big football guy.


Speaker 1 54:22

Almost, you know.


Speaker 2 54:23

It just, I mean, look, I guess if you’re in a group, you’re not thinking so much about that because you have backup per se, but it’s just looking at these guys, they.


Speaker 1 54:35

Right, but you’re saying two small guys against one big guy, but they had hoes and clubs.


Speaker 2 54:39

Yeah, that is true. That is true. I mean and then maybe


Speaker 1 54:43

Maybe they were drinking, you know, David may have been drunk.


Speaker 3 54:48

That’s true. So the lawyer from Myanmar shows up, speaks to when and saw the Burmese migrants who are accused of the crime. Sure. Immediately says we’re withdrawing their confessions. Their statements were given under the following conditions.


Speaker 3 55:05

They were stripped naked, beaten in a freezing cold room. They were not given proper interpreters. They were not given lawyers and they were threatened, both threatened with being electrocuted and murdered.


Speaker 3 55:17

If they didn’t confess, how else are you going to get a confession? It also comes out that the migrant community in Kotao, who had been, that’s how you always got Gia to confess to things, right? I mean, you know, yeah, minus the naked.


Speaker 3 55:35

They they started speaking to the other Burmese migrants in this island and they were saying, yeah, when we were questioned by the police, the police were threatened to kill us. They were pouring boiling water on some of them.


Speaker 3 55:45

There was.


Speaker 2 55:46

There’s even pictures online of the injuries that they were sustaining. They were clearly coerced. I mean, you just really get that effect.


Speaker 1 55:56

That’s yeah.


Speaker 3 55:57

So these these these confessions are meaningless, right? These were coerced out of these guys under insane conditions and threats of death. And as you know, research shows over and over and over that any confession obtained under torture is actually just someone trying to say anything to stop torture, like they’re not real confession.


Speaker 1 56:15

Okay, so now are they able to reverse any of the


Speaker 2 56:20

Well, so moving forward…


Speaker 1 56:23

because they were formally charged.


Speaker 2 56:24

They were formally charged and you know, and then they recanted they formally recanted their confessions on November 6, 2014. And they were formally charged December 8. And they would begin trial July 8, 2015.


Speaker 2 56:42

Okay, and in


Speaker 3 56:44

they were chanted. They recanted. Yes. So now you have flimsy DNA.


Speaker 2 56:49

evidence right well the prosecution centered their case surrounding the forensic evidence but can we just review for a moment the alleged bullshit forensic evidence I mean the scene was so totally compromised it they were allegedly just taking stuff and just throwing it in a box if you’ve even watched one episode of these CSI people the way that they collect forensic they are in hazmat suits they are so gingerly and so slowly collecting the evidence that this notion that these people are just taking it and tossing it in a box right and that


Speaker 1 57:38

difference between how we clean our room and how our daughter cleans her room.


Speaker 2 57:42

That is absolutely correct. And if you saw that, you would understand just what we are talking about right here.


Speaker 1 57:49

But okay, so yeah, right, you’ve got tainted forensics and-


Speaker 2 57:53

was the whole that was the defense the defense was was that this was a mess it was a mess it was a disaster it was catastrophe there was certainly was not on it was not international by international standards the forensic collection


Speaker 1 58:07

speaking of international like the families of the victims and any did any police or any investigation from say the UK or any of that yeah


Speaker 3 58:17

So on the one hand in Thailand, the Human Rights Commission, National Human Rights Commission of actual Thailand was like, this sounds sketchy. The way these guys were interrogated sounds ridiculous.


Speaker 3 58:28

The torture of the rest of the migrants to try and get them to confess is ridiculous. So the Thailand Human Rights Commission said we have to investigate this with the police in Koh Tao and find out what’s going on.


Speaker 3 58:42

And they scheduled four separate hearings with the police and the police failed to show at all four of those. Just were like, we’re not going to partake in this.


Speaker 1 58:51

busy. There’s a burglary on the crusty island and there’s only six of us so we’re all there.


Speaker 2 58:57

And they were internationally criticized. Yes.


Speaker 3 59:00

Yeah, yeah, Amnesty International. So literally, it’s an international human rights group. All these human rights groups got involved. Yeah. And there was a demand that UK investigators be allowed to come and look at the evidence and investigate, which Thailand, the Kotal people agreed to, they were given two hours total, they were allowed the people from the UK were given two hours, they were not allowed to speak to any suspects, they’re not allowed to speak to any witnesses.


Speaker 3 59:30

So they’re trying to keep it


Speaker 1 59:31

Watch us.


Speaker 3 59:32

Yeah, it just is like like if at any point up to that point you were like, oh maybe this was real right when you hear Oh, these people are trying to come on behalf of the UK and these citizens. They’re given two hours They’re not speak to anybody.


Speaker 3 59:42

It starts to just look really fishy for


Speaker 1 59:45

Super shady. I mean, what about the families of the victims? Like, they must be freaking out and they’re, are they believing what’s coming out of there? It’s interesting.


Speaker 2 59:55

because Hannah’s sister was very vocal about the fact that she felt that these guys were being sort of set up.


Speaker 3 01:00:05

Right. The family was spending time there also to try and help figure it out. Gotcha. Yeah. So, yes, so the UK folks did come in. You know, as Kim said, that this trial starts in July of 2015. The defense team is made up of 20 attorneys because this case has become such an international sensation that you’ve got all kinds of human rights lawyers, lawyers from other places, trying to help these two migrant workers because there’s a general sense that they have been scapegoated.


Speaker 3 01:00:33

The defense team is given a total of 30 minutes to meet with the men before the trial begins. There’s an 800 page report from the prosecution about how these guys did it, that the defense team is not allowed to have until the trial begins.


Speaker 1 01:00:49

All right, so totally fair. Yeah, that’s what


Speaker 2 01:00:51

Superfair gotcha and the defense their argument was that the investigation of course was flawed from the beginning Right that the evidence that was collected was not too international standard was contaminated and therefore compromised Where there was rocks there was blood that was not tested as Jerry mentioned previously the move on his clothes Were not tested


Speaker 3 01:01:17

And they have an Australian forensic scientist, the defense engages. This woman, Jane Taupin, who is one of the best forensic scientists in the world. She’s from Australia. And she tells the defense team, the DNA test is so dubious to the point of being unbelievable that it was done in 12 hours after the crime.


Speaker 3 01:01:38

Because usually, like I said before, when you have multiple mixed samples, it’s a very time consuming and difficult process. So she tells the defense this, right? Which seems like a great- It’s insane.


Speaker 3 01:01:48

It’s like, she’s like, this is impossible. This just seems like they made it up. And in fact, the DNA report is a one page summary, which is very unusual, followed by four pages of handwritten notes saying who did it.


Speaker 3 01:01:58

Okay, so this all just seems insane. So you would think that she’s a great person for the defense to call at trial, right? Because she’s basically saying the entire prosecutorial case rests on DNA forensics and the DNA forensics are impossible.


Speaker 3 01:02:15

They do not call her. The defense does not call her at trial because in Thailand, you do not have trial by jury. The judges are the judge and the jury. And the defense decides that if they call a foreign person in to testify about Thai forensics, that it will bias the judges against the defendants because it will appear that the defendants are questioning the capabilities and competence of the Thai criminal justice system.


Speaker 3 01:02:48

This is their explanation for why they don’t call her.


Speaker 2 01:02:52

The other thing that’s kind of so true on that for a second


Speaker 1 01:02:55

Wow another thing to another thing


Speaker 2 01:02:58

That was interesting is how they have them do what they call these reenactments. Oh my god


Speaker 3 01:03:03

right. That’s great. So Thailand does this thing. It’s unique, I think in all countries where they they take the defendants to the scene of the crime and force them to reenact the crime.


Speaker 2 01:03:15

I mean, you don’t even have to be convicted of crime, it seems.


Speaker 3 01:03:19

These guys were told here’s what you did on this beach now show us show us right and in this case They pick up somehow by the way, right 90 cops show up for this somehow 80 right 84 cops fly in from the mainland Watch and they had to put these two guys they had to put you know why and and saw you look at the video of this It’s insane.


Speaker 3 01:03:41

They’re wearing like bulletproof. Yeah, because they’re assuming that someone’s gonna try and take a shot at these guys and they get a some random foreign guy to stand in as David Miller and the woman from The UK television station that was reporting on this decides.


Speaker 3 01:03:57

She’ll come in and be Hannah Oh my god So now you’ve got these two guys being told now you stab him beat him and beat her and then Rape her and it’s just like it’s insane. It’s insane. They


Speaker 1 01:04:10

and they say, this is the evidence.


Speaker 2 01:04:12

Yeah, I’d never heard of anything like that.


Speaker 1 01:04:14



Speaker 3 01:04:14

It’s watching it, you’re like, this is absolutely freaking bonkers. Wow. It’s wild.


Speaker 1 01:04:21

And what is the point of that?


Speaker 2 01:04:23

Who knows? I mean, the point. What is the point of that? It was… Well, the point is to help clarify the confession, allegedly. Oh.


Speaker 3 01:04:34

Didn’t know what they were doing like you watch them in this tape, and they’re like they’re so confused So like what are we supposed to do right?


Speaker 1 01:04:41

It’s like something OJ would do here’s how I didn’t kill Nicole Brown. Yeah, exactly, right? See you do it I’m doing it all wrong. See it doesn’t match. I could not fit. I couldn’t have done it Wow, this is fucked up And here’s the worst part of it the worst part of the whole thing is that all this Time is being spent on this shit and nobody’s solving the crime


Speaker 3 01:05:02

No, it’s a farce. It’s all a farce. It’s so clever.


Speaker 1 01:05:03

Clearly that these guys didn’t do it, and nothing is getting no movement on the actual killers.


Speaker 2 01:05:09

So, December 24th, 2015, Waifu, Zalin were found guilty of this crime.


Speaker 1 01:05:19

They do it on Christmas Eve.


Speaker 2 01:05:21

Oh yeah, well why not.


Speaker 1 01:05:22

I forgot to get a night off.


Speaker 2 01:05:24

and three judges had heard the case three judges yeah and there are


Speaker 1 01:05:28

the jury as well. Right.


Speaker 2 01:05:29

no jury. Okay. And they were sentenced to death. Oh, boy.


Speaker 3 01:05:35

And the court case closed court pretty much right these three judges They said we disregarded their confessions, which we understand were Taken under dubious circumstances and were only considered the dna evidence now the dna evidence besides being Very questionable.


Speaker 3 01:05:55

Sure. They actually in july during the court case. They had actually ordered a retesting of the dna Right, right and police said oh i’m so sorry. There’s no more dna from hannah Like we’re we used it up They actually said it’s used up.


Speaker 3 01:06:11

Okay So then so then the cops say but oh wait. Oh wait, we forgot We have dna samples from the hoe the murder weapon. Oh, okay, so we’ll test that Which does not match the defendants at all. Not at all.


Speaker 3 01:06:26

Not at all. Oh But they said let’s just ignore that because we we did have that positive match to her body So we’ll just pretend that that didn’t happen


Speaker 1 01:06:36

Right, but that could just mean another person was involved hoeing


Speaker 3 01:06:40

Theoretically, theoretically, but you know starts to beg like what what so what was that scenario someone has killed her and then they Did what like what?


Speaker 2 01:06:50

And it seems that the Supreme Court of Thailand upheld the sentence Mm -hmm in August of 2019 and they said that the police handled the case correctly and that the forensic evidence was quote clear credible and detailed


Speaker 1 01:07:09

Did the president have another brilliant statement about bikinis?


Speaker 2 01:07:15

I knew there was some political unrest going on there as well. So wait, these guys were put to death? They were not. In fact, August 14th of 2020 2020. Yes. So very recently. Yeah, they’re still in jail.


Speaker 2 01:07:28

Let’s just they’ve been in jail the whole they’ve been in jail the whole time. But their death sentence were commuted. So now they just get to spend the rest of their lives in prison.


Speaker 1 01:07:39

Right. So that’s a crazy story. So so, yeah, you got people that probably didn’t do it are, you know, punished for the crime.


Speaker 2 01:07:49

And the thing is, too, let’s just pretend for a moment that they did. Let’s pretend for a moment that they did. They did do it. Right. By the standard by even which we hear court cases and even sit on juries, the whole beyond a reasonable doubt thing.


Speaker 2 01:08:06

Well, they would be walking free. Right. They should be walking free. Right. But yeah, that’s not how that played out.


Speaker 1 01:08:16

more victims in this.


Speaker 3 01:08:18

Well more I would say the family’s also well, of course, but i’m saying like to pile tragedy on tragedy on a sister who? You know was a real vocal part of all of this. Oh, no She died Was it childbirth related?


Speaker 3 01:08:34

Yeah something and she she’d had some ongoing health issues too Yeah, so this this poor family has you know lost two daughters the families of the victims, I don’t know if it was both families or one family, but they actually were Appreciative of the clemency and yeah


Speaker 2 01:08:52

I do remember that David Miller’s family was very vocal about the boys lives were spared


Speaker 3 01:08:59

Yeah, and their and their take on it was that they felt like the guys why and and saw that who’d been found guilty of this they felt that they had Asked for forgiveness like they they they were okay with clemency because they felt like the guys had admitted they did it and Forgiveness and you know, it’s sort of begs a question like where are their heads at at this point?


Speaker 3 01:09:19

I don’t know where my head would be at six years into this right? We were like, okay Do we just go with it and just say okay? These guys did it and they killed they they killed our son and our brother and right?


Speaker 3 01:09:31

We’re just gonna roll with that or what a fuck


Speaker 2 01:09:35

nightmare. It’s just a disaster. What a fucking nightmare. And, you know, Anonymous?


Speaker 3 01:09:41

The Web Hackers, the Web Hackers Anonymous got involved in this. Yeah, they were fucking pissed. They felt like these guys were completely scribed.


Speaker 2 01:09:50



Speaker 1 01:09:50

They were railroaded. So who do they hack? Thailand. The Thai police.


Speaker 2 01:09:55



Speaker 3 01:09:56

Pretty much. Yeah, anonymous. And they do.


Speaker 2 01:09:59

to a whole video on it, too.


Speaker 3 01:10:01

40 -minute video explaining exactly how this is bullshit you like mother fuck yes fuck you I don’t know, but they should if they didn’t the general vibe was


Speaker 2 01:10:13

Fuck you, you know who did this. The subtext was like, you guys re -eroded these guys.


Speaker 1 01:10:18

Did the original the original investigator who got taken off the case who seemed to be headed In the right direction did he ever? Write anything or do anything?


Speaker 2 01:10:30

I think he got promoted.


Speaker 1 01:10:33

But I’m saying he got taken off like he didn’t have any hey, this is you know, he doesn’t care at that


Speaker 2 01:10:40

You know, I think the feeling I got was just like, yeah, we’re not gonna do all that.


Speaker 1 01:10:45

Right. But I’m saying the investigator was going down a road and then got removed.


Speaker 2 01:10:51

He was going down a road and he was like.


Speaker 1 01:10:52

Like I’m not going to risk anything because.


Speaker 2 01:10:54

Look at the end of the day. And from what I understand in the movie.


Speaker 1 01:10:59

version that guy would be up every night. He would be doing it on his own going rogue. He would you know, right writing reports


Speaker 3 01:11:06

I don’t think that’s how it rolls in Thailand.


Speaker 2 01:11:08

Now, now, I mean, it’s it’s we could have a whole season of Slaycation devoted to just this island.


Speaker 3 01:11:15

Just Kim and I were putting this list together. Oh, and by the way as far as anonymous goes not only did they release the 40 -minute video They actually did take down three hundred and fourteen sites in Thailand all related to police and criminal justice.


Speaker 3 01:11:26

Like they were really upset Understandably, here’s just a short list. This is just from Koh Tao that little our little tiny island You’re gonna read other


Speaker 1 01:11:37

cases that we could potentially use.


Speaker 3 01:11:39

Just just gonna tell you real quick January 2000 Ian Jacobs body was found in a well family doesn’t understand how it got there 2002 a guy is shot dead in broad daylight 2012 Ben Harrington dies under mysterious circumstances on a moped ride 2013 Tony Gordolo owner of the Lotus owner of the Lotus bar is found dead January 2014 Nick Pearson found floating in a bay while on vacation with his family.


Speaker 3 01:12:05

They don’t understand how he got there 2014 Hannah and David the guy the murders were talking about November 2014 a Swiss tourist Hans Peter suitor is found dead December 2014 and just goes on and on it goes on a French a French guy Dimitri in January 2015 was found hanging from the beam of his house They said it was a suicide but both of his hands were tied behind behind his back Wow


Speaker 1 01:12:30

to go down to the south for that kind of bullshit.


Speaker 3 01:12:35

just wow wow okay oh the room just got a little colder it’s freezing here by the way January 2015 a British woman was found dead in a room at the in touch resort same same owners February 2015 a Russian tourist Valentina vanished from her hostel and has never been seen again so why they call it Turtle Island they don’t they actually call it Death Island


Speaker 1 01:13:05

Because it’s location island. Yes. Ah.


Speaker 3 01:13:08

We’re too late. Yeah, they call it. I’m stopping, but look, there’s a whole other page. Oh, my god. OK? Yeah. This just goes on and on. And some of these have a handful of these. That’s season two right there, dude.


Speaker 3 01:13:20

Some of these, there’s 25 of these in the last two years on this little island. That’s crazy. They call it Death Island. Death Island, yeah.


Speaker 1 01:13:27

That’s where death and meth make so.


Speaker 3 01:13:30

See their spin -off series, you know, Death Island.


Speaker 2 01:13:34

Death Island. Yeah, man. It’s crazy. I think there’s even a podcast called Death Island Probably I think there’s another Death Island. I think it’s devoted to I mean, it could be I mean, let’s face it all those names


Speaker 3 01:13:52

You know, look, some of these are obviously accidents that happen on replication, but not this, this is, they’re not all right.


Speaker 2 01:13:58

the point that was drove home for me at least just the incompetence of the investigators the investigators were there’s only six of them


Speaker 1 01:14:06

There’s more now they’ve added added they’ve doubled they’ve doubled their police force. There’s now a swarthy 12


Speaker 3 01:14:13

Well, but the thing is that.


Speaker 1 01:14:15

A robust force of 13. A baker’s dozen police.


Speaker 3 01:14:19

handling it. Six of them, their only job is to destroy DNA and then it is. Yeah, exactly. The incompetence might be intentional. Yes. Right. So there’s a theory that…


Speaker 2 01:14:29

what here’s the thing.


Speaker 1 01:14:30

No, incompetence by design to keep the status quo.


Speaker 2 01:14:34

Right. Exactly. I mean, because the thing is, it’s like, look, people are not trying to put themselves and their families at risk. Right. If you’re going to just keep your mouth shut.


Speaker 1 01:14:44

Or is it part of the fun? Can you survive Death Island? Can you survive Death Island?


Speaker 3 01:14:49

Well, there’s a few different reasons for police to exist, right? One, the most common reason is to investigate crimes and prevent crimes. Right. That would be a pretty basic definition of a good police force.


Speaker 3 01:15:01

OK, sure. But in a place like this, you could say that the purpose of the police is to protect the local reputation families, right, to serve them and keep them happy and to protect the reputation of the island.


Speaker 3 01:15:17

Right. Which which then gives your your police a very different direction of how to behave. So then it’s like naked gun. Wait, how is it like naked gun? Just like really bad policing. Oh, I see.


Speaker 1 01:15:28

Well, Frank Drebin gave his shit. He did. He just couldn’t drive.


Speaker 3 01:15:33

And he didn’t know how to operate a microphone.


Speaker 1 01:15:35

Right, okay. Well, we should probably wrap this up here right and there’s nothing else new


Speaker 2 01:15:42

in jail and yeah yeah it’s still just ah man


Speaker 1 01:15:48

Okay, wow. Any takeaway from this? I feel like the whole episode was takeaway.


Speaker 3 01:15:54

Yeah, I don’t know that I have any more specific takeaway. Maybe it’s stay away. Yeah. This does not sound like a great place. It doesn’t.


Speaker 2 01:16:01

And I think the takeaway, again, is just sort of being acutely aware and just…


Speaker 1 01:16:08

not wearing a bikini, even when you’re not wearing one.


Speaker 3 01:16:12

I don’t even know if people- We don’t know. We don’t know. I don’t even know if people-


Speaker 2 01:16:19

aware like this is you know you’re not expecting to be brutally and aggressively attacked but i think based on that list you are well no but i’m just saying i don’t think that they were yeah of course not thinking that most people that when they go on vacation or not but you know what i’m gonna do i’m gonna always just behave that i could at any moment be viciously and aggressively attacked well you know


Speaker 3 01:16:44

You sound like a lot of fun to go on vacation. Yeah, exactly. And Jerry, you asked us why we don’t go on vacation very often.


Speaker 1 01:16:49

vacation she’s she’s worried about being attacked and and i feel like the best defense is a good offense so i’m just constantly attacking people so we uh we are not the best vacation couple


Speaker 3 01:17:03

Disney World with like a knife and a…


Speaker 5 01:17:06

I’m beating


Speaker 1 01:17:08

No, just, yeah.


Speaker 2 01:17:09

Yeah, I’m like sitting there talking to myself. He said he did. He said I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, don’t touch me, don’t touch me.


Speaker 1 01:17:16

get away all right well this was a crazy one very twisty turn


Speaker 2 01:17:24

Just dreadfully, dreadfully sad, like that.


Speaker 1 01:17:28

good job guys a horrible story well told do you have any takeaway from this one well it’s part stay away and it’s also part if you are so inclined i’m not condoning this or encouraging this but if you did want to kill somebody feels like this is the place to go and do it so you know it’s like hostile


Speaker 3 01:17:46

Island. This episode was sponsored by the Kotow tourism. Death Island dot com. Make your dreams come true. Make all yours


Speaker 1 01:17:57

screams. Anyway, well, thank you for listening and putting up with this and I don’t know how you guys can laugh at this.


Speaker 5 01:18:07

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Bye.


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