Ep. 15 Terror in Tampa (Part Two)

We’re back with Part 2 of the tragic and mystifying case of the Rogers Family. If you haven’t listened to Ep. 14 Trouble in Tampa (Part One) we recommend you do so! As to Part 2, thanks to innovative policing, family dysfunction, & a guilty conscience… investigators are able to arrest the man they believe committed the murders of these three women. The suspect – who decides to represent himself at trial – is implicated in another murder in different part of Florida. Have the authorities taken a dangerous serial killer off the streets, or will he walk free to kill again? Find out in this shocking conclusion.

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our transcript

Transcript:

Speaker 1 00:00

The other interesting thing is besides giving them these great directions, he says, you know, I’m from Ohio, also, it’s great to meet other people from Ohio. I actually have a boat. If you ladies would like to come out on a boat cruise.

 

Speaker 1 00:14

Oh no. You’re invited tomorrow night at sunset, meet me at this location and we can go out on my boat and you can see Tampa Bay and the sunset. Which sounds great. And this guy’s being super helpful and nice.

 

Speaker 2 00:40

Back your body bags, we’re back with another episode of Slaycation, your home for vacation murders and mysterious deaths. And we’re just going to jump right into this because this is part two of the boat trip, the world’s worst sunset cruise.

 

Speaker 2 01:00

you

 

Speaker 1 01:00

And so where we are, and here in part two, is Joan and her daughter, Joan Rogers and her daughters, Michelle and Kristy, had gone to Florida in 1989. Yes, and let me.

 

Speaker 3 01:13

Let me just add that if you haven’t, if you’re just tuning in and you’re hearing it, you need to go back to the last episode and fill in.

 

Speaker 1 01:25

Yeah, listen to part one, because there’s a lot, but summarizing for those of you who’ve listened to part one, these three women were in Florida getting away from a really traumatic time that they were having back on their family farm in Ohio.

 

Speaker 1 01:38

Dad’s back home in Ohio. The women are in the farm and they accept an offer of a sunset cruise from a nice guy they meet who seems like a nice guy who ends up murdering the three of them, throwing their bodies in the bay in Tampa and has eluded capture.

 

Speaker 1 01:58

And we are trying to figure out at this point who did it. The authorities have a composite sketch and some information about him because of a very similar sexual assault case that had happened a few months earlier.

 

Speaker 1 02:13

And a writing sample, a writing sample from some directions he’d given these three women who were murdered. And they have now put the handwriting up on billboards all around Tampa. And now we’re three years on from the murders.

 

Speaker 1 02:28

And tip number 1 ,500 and something has come in from a neighbor saying, I recognize the composite. I recognize the boat. We have a contract for some work he did for us, the handwriting.

 

Speaker 2 02:45

Oba Chandler and this neighbor wasn’t currently living next to this he had moved on

 

Speaker 1 02:52

an old neighbor. He had moved, but she said it’s a guy named Oba Chandler. Obit. Oba. Oba. Oba Chandler. Oba Chandler, and this is, we’re certain it’s him. So now the authorities have a name, Oba Chandler.

 

Speaker 1 03:11

They run Oba through the system, and it turns out that he is a career criminal.

 

Speaker 3 03:21

criminal from the time, it feels like the time he could walk he was committing crimes.

 

Speaker 2 03:29

Well, it’s good that he was out and among the populace.

 

Speaker 1 03:34

Well, the other thing that the neighbor said was suspicious or the former neighbor was that he had moved. He closed his business, his contracting business in 1990.

 

Speaker 3 03:46

Aluminum siding. Aluminum siding, yeah, contracting.

 

Speaker 2 03:49

I thought it was a career criminal. Well, you can be both. Oh, okay.

 

Speaker 1 03:52

Have you ever met an aluminum sighting guy? I mean, aren’t there like movies about how they’re basically just con artists?

 

Speaker 2 04:00

I apologize to any of the aluminum ciders who are listening.

 

Speaker 1 04:04

Uh, so he had closed his business abruptly in 1990, so about six or seven months after these murders. Like he had a storefront? Uh, no, he had just a, you know, a contracting business, putting an aluminum siding.

 

Speaker 1 04:17

Gotcha. So he left behind most of his belongings in Tampa, abandoned his house even, didn’t stop paying the mortgage. Yeah. That went into foreclosure. Yep. They went on the run. Basically, uh, he went on the run to California.

 

Speaker 1 04:32

Now what’s interesting is that Oba Chandler is a career criminal who then realizes that he could work for the DEA, yes, the Drug Enforcement Agency, as an informant. So he goes to them and says, I would love to help you guys entrap people, just pay me and I will be a snitch.

 

Speaker 1 04:59

So our murder, our murder suspect has taken on new work as an informant for the DEA.

 

Speaker 2 05:06

Yeah, but then they don’t know he’s the guy that they know idea now

 

Speaker 1 05:11

Nobody has any idea. From 1989 to 1992, the cops have zero idea of who it could be. So during that time, while he’s on the run, he’s also working for the DEA, doing wiretaps and informing on sometimes friends and family even.

 

Speaker 1 05:28

They said the DEA agents actually later said that the concept of loyalty was not one that this guy was familiar with at all. He would happily turn in a friend to run money. In fact,

 

Speaker 3 05:40

He had said something to his brother and his his son -in -law rather making a comment that He had no family loyalty Right

 

Speaker 2 05:51

Well, he’s also completely morally bankrupt in every possible way. I mean, if he’s the guy and it, oh yeah, no, he’s, he’s, I don’t know if we’re hiding, like he is the, we, we know he’s the murderer.

 

Speaker 2 06:05

We know. Right. But I’m saying they were.

 

Speaker 1 06:06

We’re like, wow, this guy, this guy will turn into anybody.

 

Speaker 2 06:08

really good. That’s a DEA snitch. They probably loved them.

 

Speaker 1 06:11

He also during this time. He’s on the run with his his wife Deborah. He had a wife Yes, and his child his two -year -old girl with Whitney. Yeah

 

Speaker 3 06:21

He had eight children with seven baby mamas. Wait, what? Mm -hmm. Eight kids with seven baby mamas. Oh, okay.

 

Speaker 2 06:32

I thought you said it the opposite. I was having seven kids with eight moms. Well, here’s the thing.

 

Speaker 1 06:38

so here his credit is so bad this guy oh god yeah he’s in order to get like phone lines and utilities he has to use Whitney his two -year -old daughter he pretend that she’s applying for stuff so everything’s in the in the little girl’s name oh these guys

 

Speaker 3 06:58

least to their apartment in their daughter’s name.

 

Speaker 1 07:02

Whitney’s name. So grimy. And the other issue with this guy is despite the DEA work that he’s doing and all of this, you know, being on the run it’s very hard to settle down and have a business. In order to make money, what does he do?

 

Speaker 2 07:19

Sunset cruises, robberies.

 

Speaker 1 07:23

Left and right. Robbing jewelry stores, you know, like the guy is just robbing stuff left and right. And so, so now you’ve got this guy who’s murdered these three women, he’s sexually assaulted at least this other Canadian woman on the cruise.

 

Speaker 1 07:40

Yes. On the run with his wife and two year old daughter, robbing jewelry stores while also working as an informant for the DEA. And when’s the movie on this coming out? It’s like insane.

 

Speaker 2 07:54

Right and does he have his does he still have his death boat? No, no

 

Speaker 3 07:58

actually sold that. Sold it? Yes, yes, he did sell it.

 

Speaker 1 08:04

He sold everything he could to have money to go on the run. Right. And his wife has no idea.

 

Speaker 3 08:10

You know, that’s a good question.

 

Speaker 2 08:12

Because Kim knows when I take a cookie.

 

Speaker 1 08:15

So so the wife it’s interesting. It’s an interesting question. So so the wife it’s not that she has no idea In the fall of 89 Debra’s Debra Chandler over his wife a few months after these murders says That he’s on a short fuse.

 

Speaker 1 08:29

So he’s not sleeping. He’s getting upset He wouldn’t sleep in the same bed with her anymore and they stopped having sex at one point Debra said I’ve had enough of this behavior. I’m taking Whitney and I’m leaving you and He said no, you’re not and he pushed her and bruised her at which point she’s starting to realize Something’s really like these are this is her what she’s seeing all that her side of this So she knows that something’s going on She doesn’t know what right?

 

Speaker 1 09:00

He hasn’t said anything about it. I think he’s going through murder withdrawal So here’s this here’s the interesting thing because eventually the police had a composite sketch of The rapist from yeah, the Canadian woman.

 

Speaker 1 09:13

They actually separately unrelated to the murders They were running this composite sketch looking for this this rapist. Mm -hmm And it was on all the TV programs a Tampa tribute in the st. Petersburg times when they start running these composite photos.

 

Speaker 1 09:28

Oba disappears like Debra’s like oh, oh, but just disappeared No idea where he was She said as soon as she saw those composite sketches she was like, I’m not surprised He left because that guy looks just like Oba

 

Speaker 2 09:44

Right, but hang on one second. I’m just getting a little lost because you said they went on the run with his wife before

 

Speaker 1 09:50

before they went on the run. So they’re in Florida? So they’re in Florida, right after the murders in 1989. They’re still in Florida. They’re going on with life as before, except that Oba’s acting really weird.

 

Speaker 1 10:01

Right.

 

Speaker 2 10:02

Right, but like I said like I mean I joked and said murder with girl But like he was going to kill those Canadian girls He did kill the mom and the two kids it feels like he’s a sociopath that needs to kill Yeah, I’m surprised he was even able to stop doing that but here’s the thing though.

 

Speaker 2 10:18

He didn’t stop

 

Speaker 3 10:19

That was another thing that the FBI profiler noted was that this was likely a serial killer.

 

Speaker 2 10:26

Yeah. That’s what I’m thinking. And that’s a lot of stuff. You’ve got serial killing. You’ve got assaults. You’ve got boat cruises, aluminum siding. That’s a lot. And a wife and a kid. This guy, yeah.

 

Speaker 2 10:38

But he’s a sociopath. Okay, so wait. So the composite came out. They take off. The wife is with him or no? Oh, he leaves on his own.

 

Speaker 1 10:48

And Debra, Oba’s wife, doesn’t think it’s because he did it. She thinks it’s because the sketch looks just like him. And she’s like, he’s probably worried that people are gonna think he did it. Oh, my God, that is the dumbest thought.

 

Speaker 2 11:02

Yeah.

 

Speaker 3 11:02

I mean, also because when he was out on the boats both times, when he was out on the boat after committing the rape, and when he was out on the boat after the murders, he would call.

 

Speaker 2 11:18

We call home.

 

Speaker 1 11:18

Yeah. Hey, honey. With excuses as to why he’s out late. Oh, I see. At one point, the gas ran out. It’s just nonsense, right? Just makes up the stuff. So at this point, when he leaves town or just disappears and his wife, Deborah, is after like a week of this being gone, she’s like, okay, now she’s wondering, did he do these rapes?

 

Speaker 1 11:41

Did he kill these women?

 

Speaker 2 11:43

Yes. You know what an innocent person does? If a composite sketch comes out and it looks just like you, you go to the police and you say, hey, that looks a lot like me. Here’s my whereabouts. Here’s how I didn’t do it.

 

Speaker 2 11:58

I got scared. I went on the run. And then his wife’s like, oh, yes, because it looks like him. Crazy time.

 

Speaker 3 12:04

Interestingly enough, this case was featured on Unsolved Mysteries. Robert Stack? Yep. When that happened, he took off.

 

Speaker 2 12:15

And then that’s when he began his DEA career. Well, not really.

 

Speaker 1 12:17

right away first she goes to Ohio not not because not because the women are from Ohio because his daughter happens to live in Cincinnati

 

Speaker 3 12:26

Right, which is where

 

Speaker 2 12:27

Oh, he seems to have all these kids. Right, because he’s from Ohio, I remember.

 

Speaker 1 12:31

right oh that was real yes oh so he goes to Cincinnati it turns out and he’s hanging out with his daughter crystal and her husband and her husband mm -hmm and he for some reason has told crystal and Rick that he killed these women wait what he can he tells ya and meanwhile Deborah back in Florida has been calling crystal saying have you seen your father have you heard from your father and crystals like nope no idea where he is covering for right yeah crystals covering for dad so Obas son Jeff and Jeff’s wife go to visit Deborah in Florida to see how she’s doing while they’re there crystal calls from Ohio and tells her mom dad’s confessed to these murders I just shared horrific he’s shared with us that he killed these people so weird and Deborah it sort of just was like I don’t know what you’re talking about just just sort of puts on this thing of like I’m just not gonna take this information in and then crystal says to Deborah go to a payphone and call me from the payphone so she does Deborah calls her daughter crystal from this payphone gives her the number of the payphone crystal then says go to this other phone to another pay phone these people are insane like a ransom thing it’s like they have this idea that they’re they’re trying to like they they all think the house is bugged oh and so they’re worried that all these which houses bugged the the Florida house I see right so they’re thinking they were like somehow getting away from investigators all these crazy phone things anyways so they’re trying to help crystal calls the second payphone and puts dad on the phone right Oba gets on the phone with Deborah and she says he sounded paranoid he’s got all these money problems which he knew about he says he wants out of the marriage and he says have you talked to the police about me he keeps saying to her have you said anything with the police about he was anything the police she says no I want you to come home to me and Whitney to the baby and she says don’t worry you know the house isn’t bugs no one’s looking for you and he comes home what yeah he comes home he does go home like right after Thanksgiving

 

Speaker 2 15:11

Mmm

 

Speaker 1 15:11

This is so weird. 1989. He comes back to the Florida house. Oh, in 1989? Yeah, in 1989. Okay.

 

Speaker 2 15:16

Okay.

 

Speaker 3 15:17

not long after.

 

Speaker 2 15:20

All right, so this is like a parallel, like, we talked about the investigation part from the, you know, what happened with the victims. Yes. And now this is happening. Now we’re going back in time to what’s happening with the channel.

 

Speaker 1 15:31

And how, because you asked the question, you know, how do you, how do you hide for three years? Right. How do you? In plain sight. In plain sight. And the answer is, apparently, if you’re in the right kind of family, you can talk about the fact that you did all this shit and nobody says anything.

 

Speaker 1 15:48

That is true. You know, like nobody, and you know, who knows? It’s hard to, like, I don’t want to, like, obviously, if your relative tells you they murdered people and they did, you should probably report them.

 

Speaker 1 16:04

You should tell the police. But it’s hard to say without being in that situation and being, and also being in a situation where the person you’re talking about reporting is someone you know is kind of violent and crazy.

 

Speaker 1 16:15

I don’t know what the psychology is. It’s hard to say from the outside, right? Because it’s the same thing you could say about people who are in abusive relationships. You know, people are like, why don’t you leave?

 

Speaker 1 16:25

It’s like, it’s not that easy. There’s a lot. Yeah. It’s not. It’s never that simple.

 

Speaker 3 16:31

Right, they say that it takes a person in a domestic violence situation to leave, and I don’t know if this has changed, but at the time that I was doing this work, they said you’d leave seven times before you’d actually make the break.

 

Speaker 3 16:48

Which is a lie.

 

Speaker 2 16:49

a lot, a lot. Chems up to six.

 

Speaker 3 16:54

Ba -dum -bum.

 

Speaker 1 16:57

You gonna say something about Christians now? So Oba, and jump in if I’m leaving anything out here, I think I got this.

 

Speaker 3 17:06

new to me I’m actually like

 

Speaker 1 17:08

OK, so Oba Oba comes home and they confront him. You know, Deborah says, did you do this? Right. Assaults. And he’s.

 

Speaker 3 17:16

like, no, no, what are you talking about?

 

Speaker 2 17:21

You’re believing our daughter named Crystal? Haha. Everyone believes a crystal.

 

Speaker 1 17:27

And so life kind of just goes on. Right. This house. They just go back to living and laughing about that sketch that looks just like me. Right. And what’s interesting is people have called in and said, this sketch looks like this guy.

 

Speaker 1 17:42

Yeah. And the police just haven’t. Again, it’s like it’s not anything wrong. There’s so many. Yeah. I mean, sifting through. The other thing was the vehicle description was in a Suzu trooper is what the people said he the woman had said the Canadians that said he drove and he actually drove a Jeep Cherokee.

 

Speaker 1 18:00

So that little detail was right enough to say, oh, it’s probably not him. And the height was a little off. They said he was 510. Oh, but it was over six foot. So life goes on. And then we get to 1990.

 

Speaker 1 18:15

And Oba, at that point, I think he’s feeling. He’s feeling like things are closing in like he just has a spidey sense that that is getting nervous, getting nervous. He just can’t stay in the same spot, right?

 

Speaker 1 18:29

That’s when he shuts his business down, abandons the house, abandons the mortgage and goes on the run with Deborah, with the family and Whitney. OK. And this is when he starts doing robberies again, when he starts working for the DEA as a snitch.

 

Speaker 1 18:45

And this is his life for like the next year and a half. And he’s living in California, you said. He was in California, but now he’s back in back to Florida. Yeah, back to Florida. As improbable as that seems.

 

Speaker 1 18:57

Right. He’s now back in the Tampa area.

 

Speaker 2 18:59

But, you know, Florida, there’s a lot of crazies in Florida, so you can kind of blame.

 

Speaker 1 19:05

And so he’s pretend to go to work. All right, I’m heading out. No, he not only does he not pretend to go to work, he’s got he’s actually got the Deborah and the daughter involved in the robberies. Well, oh, yeah, yeah.

 

Speaker 1 19:18

No, he’s got. Oh, wow. That I didn’t know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He has them like he’s like Deborah Waite in the car with the baby. Well, he robs like a jewelry store. And holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. That was the one he did in Clearwater in 91, I think he’s he’s not hiding it.

 

Speaker 2 19:39

Would you do that, honey, for me? Would you wait in the car while I go rob something?

 

Speaker 3 19:44

No, no, no, I you would be hospitalized in a psych ward somewhere.

 

Speaker 1 19:52

Right and so, you know, they did a background they doing all kinds of checks on him They they had 18 juvenile arrests that he had back when you grew up in, Ohio Armed robbery even stole a dog. He’s counterfeited counterfeited.

 

Speaker 1 20:06

Yes from prison once Kidnapping kidnaps people he also lied on his marriage license. Ah, that one is in the unforgivable Deborah was not his first wife as he indicated. It was his third wife, right and on September 7th 1992 They check fingerprint evidence finally of his prints and they get a positive match on his palm print to the brochure Right that was in Joan Rogers car, right?

 

Speaker 1 20:36

Ah

 

Speaker 3 20:36

about the one that he’d written on. A lot of circumstantial stuff.

 

Speaker 4 20:41

The Hargan women seem to have it all.

 

Speaker 5 20:44

From the outside looking in, we were blessed. My mom was amazing.

 

Speaker 4 20:49

But as detectives would soon learn there was a lot going on inside the Hargan household. Ashley and I have been calling my mom and the house and Helen, no one’s answering. 63 -year -old Pamela Hargan gunned down in her own home.

 

Speaker 4 21:04

Her youngest daughter Helen lay dead upstairs.

 

Speaker 5 21:06

Patrol, when they arrived, assumed or thought that there might have been a murder -suicide.

 

Speaker 4 21:12

But for the detectives on the scene, there were things about the scene itself that were concerning to us on day one. Who would want to kill their mother and their little sister? There is no boogeyman here.

 

Speaker 4 21:24

It is exactly who we think it is. I’m Peter Van Sant from 48 Hours. This is Blood is Thicker, the Hargan Family Killings. Listen to Blood is Thicker, the Hargan Family Killings, wherever you get your podcasts.

 

Speaker 4 21:42

you

 

Speaker 1 21:42

is

 

Speaker 2 21:44

crafty. I would think…

 

Speaker 1 21:46

you would have to be if you’re gonna. I mean, even if you just think about the craftiness involved in like, that’s a lot.

 

Speaker 2 21:52

getting your family involved. And you thought the Sopranos were fucked up.

 

Speaker 3 21:57

I mean, and at this point, he’s being heavily surveilled by investigators.

 

Speaker 1 22:01

Yeah, they’re, they’re all over him.

 

Speaker 2 22:02

Well, after the the fingerprint match or the palm print or whatever or no before even before that before that because of the sketch. Mm -hmm. Gotcha. Okay.

 

Speaker 1 22:11

point they knew his name. Once the neighbor people had said, oh, that’s his face. That’s his handwriting. That’s his car. They took it serious. Yeah. Then they’re like, this is the guy, especially once they ran the background on him and they’re like, oh, this guy’s a career criminal.

 

Speaker 1 22:28

He’s disappeared. And then they

 

Speaker 3 22:31

And they had, investigators had gone to Toronto and interviewed the two women, showed them the other day.

 

Speaker 1 22:41

Canadian woman that right he’d raped one of them, right?

 

Speaker 2 22:43

And they, and they recognized him. Yes. Both recognize.

 

Speaker 1 22:48

at his photos and they’re like, that’s the guy gotcha. So they decide on the cops decide they’re going to arrest him on either September 17th or 18th, 1992, 17th or 18th in Florida. Okay. And on the 17th wall under surveillance, he suddenly leaves the state.

 

Speaker 1 23:08

That’s right. Yeah. He drives to Cincinnati, but now he’s in another state.

 

Speaker 3 23:15

Right. They’re like, oh my God, we lost him.

 

Speaker 2 23:19

Good Lord. This is a real testimony to the legal system, but also if you’re crafty enough, I guess you can, you can get in and out. Like if you don’t give a shit, if you are just, yeah, I mean, this guy’s like a drifter almost.

 

Speaker 2 23:36

He’s like a.

 

Speaker 1 23:36

drifter with a purpose yeah it’s like I’m just gonna

 

Speaker 2 23:40

I’m just curious why he killed these people.

 

Speaker 3 23:43

Well, because he wanted to, because he knew he could get away. I mean, and the thing is, too, it’s like his previous crimes, it almost. I mean, for consider to that. This is what he got caught for. He could have killed before.

 

Speaker 3 24:01

That’s true. And apparently he was arrested for peeping through a woman’s window while masturbating. So he was arrested for that fun. you

 

Speaker 2 24:14

What’s the crime?

 

Speaker 3 24:19

Oh my. You’re fucking disgusting. Oh wow.

 

Speaker 2 24:24

Sorry, I was, I think I missed something that touched it. All right. Listen, listen, listen. So he flees, he flees the state. He goes to Cincinnati, stays there for a little while.

 

Speaker 1 24:37

Yeah, and while he’s in Cincinnati, he sells some jewelry that he stole I mean, right does some business And then he goes back to Florida Immediately upon returning on September 24th. Is that right? Yes 1992 yes At a gas station near his home an interstate 75.

 

Speaker 1 24:56

He is arrested and he offers no resistance, right?

 

Speaker 3 25:01

He’s taken into custody and jailed at Pinella County Jail and charged with sexual battery. They charged them for the rapes because they needed more evidence.

 

Speaker 2 25:17

Oh, for the murder. Gotcha. But they had these women that could…

 

Speaker 3 25:22

Right, right. And they were able to hold him while they gathered more evidence. Gotcha.

 

Speaker 1 25:30

And they had him at a million dollar bond, which is insanely high for sexual battery. And so he knew. He had to know that they know about the murders, because a million dollars for sexual batteries.

 

Speaker 2 25:42

closing in how I wasn’t going to post this bond this bad. No.

 

Speaker 1 25:47

Good. In fact, it’s funny because, well, never mind. We don’t need to go down the worms.

 

Speaker 2 25:55

Why? What are we going to say?

 

Speaker 1 25:56

Well, John, Hal’s brother John was a prime suspect for a while because of all these issues, but they had to really prove where he was at the time.

 

Speaker 3 26:07

And they concluded that he could have had nothing to do with it and that he couldn’t have, even within the confines of jail, contracted it out or there was nothing to support that, correct?

 

Speaker 2 26:21

use of the ex -girlfriend. Wow, there is so much to this, but we’re not quite done, right?

 

Speaker 3 26:30

So much. They caught him. They caught him. He’s in jail now. They’re looking now for more evidence.

 

Speaker 2 26:36

Oh, so this isn’t is this still ongoing?

 

Speaker 3 26:38

Yes. I mean, so they caught him. He’s in jail for the rape of the Canadian tourist, and they are now trying to continue to gather more evidence. This is early 90s. Right.

 

Speaker 2 26:53

Okay, so then what happens?

 

Speaker 3 26:56

They end up speaking with Crystal and Rick, his daughter and his son -in -law, and they confirm that he did indeed make a trip to Cincinnati, Ohio, and that he did indeed essentially confess

 

Speaker 2 27:17

Does that make them accessories?

 

Speaker 3 27:20

It doesn’t make it. No, no, no, no.

 

Speaker 1 27:23

But if they were there, you’re an accessory.

 

Speaker 2 27:25

Right, but I’m saying if somebody confesses a murder and you don’t report it, you thought that that was…

 

Speaker 3 27:30

I mean, I don’t know how the law works. I don’t know. I actually don’t know. Yeah. You just have to… I mean, because people can tell you anything. That is true. I mean…

 

Speaker 2 27:39

that is true and you don’t want to immediately call up and say hey guess what my dad just confessed to murders right but he’s been drinking why is that funny Kim yeah that’s what I thought

 

Speaker 1 27:52

So then he actually gets booked for another robbery in September, and then in November of 1992 he is finally indicted on the three counts of first degree murder in the deaths of Joan Michelle and Christy Rogers.

 

Speaker 3 28:07

But once they got that information from his daughter and his son -in -law, they were able to convene a grand jury and formally charge him with those murders.

 

Speaker 2 28:21

Yes, or?

 

Speaker 3 28:22

Well, they had to have a trial.

 

Speaker 2 28:25

This is Florida, right? They kill people there.

 

Speaker 3 28:27

So the trial begins on September 1994 and the prosecution’s case is he lured those three women to the boat, tied and bound them to concrete rocks that he sexually assaulted each of them and threw them in the water where they afixiated.

 

Speaker 2 28:49

So they were alive when they went in the water? Yes.

 

Speaker 3 28:52

What do you find? Handwriting experts and fingerprint analysts, Marine phone operators, Chandler’s daughter, her husband, all testified on behalf of the prosecution. Right. The Canadian tourists also testified.

 

Speaker 3 29:11

The defense, well, he admits that he met the women, gave them directions, but didn’t see them again after that. Right. And he emphatically denies responsibility for these murders. Mm -hmm.

 

Speaker 1 29:28

His story, there was interesting because at trial, you know, he had always told his wife, Deborah, why he was late. So, you know, he was out murdering these women. But he said, oh, my gas ran out and I had to duct tape it.

 

Speaker 1 29:42

And I tried to call the Coast Guard and then I flagged down this Coast Guard ship. So he has this whole story that he tells about what happened. And Deborah even confirmed that this is a story that he told.

 

Speaker 1 29:54

So they try to check out and they check all that out. And they’re like, there was no ship you could have flagged down anywhere near there. Right. There’s no calls that came into any of these places. And then they have a mechanic who says, but lying to your wife is in crime.

 

Speaker 2 30:08

You know, you said, all right, fine, I was at the strip club.

 

Speaker 1 30:12

these are the kind of details I love is that a mechanic said the story about the gas gas yes doesn’t work because he claims that he would have he was duct -taping the gas line because it was leaking into the boat right right and the guy said the mechanic the boat mechanic was like look the kind of engine and gas line on this boat if it has a leak would be spraying upwards not down like it’s these very like interesting little details that people tripped up on there is just a preponderance of evidence

 

Speaker 2 30:42

Was that to try to mask why he had duct tape?

 

Speaker 3 30:47

It could very well be. I mean, interestingly enough, he testified in his own defense, which is- Always a good idea. Always, always. And on that very point, he became very flustered and angry.

 

Speaker 2 31:02

Right. That’s always good for the court to see you flustered and angry.

 

Speaker 3 31:05

and freaking out, especially when you can’t explain your lies.

 

Speaker 2 31:10

Right. Man, here’s the worst part. You got this sad, tragic story of this family that encounters an awful, awful person back home who does horrible things to them. Right. And then they leave and they meet a worse person.

 

Speaker 2 31:29

Yeah. That is just fucked up. And there are fucked up people everywhere, like you said earlier, or I think in the first episode, it’s like people are gross and disgusting.

 

Speaker 3 31:44

It’s just mind boggling. So on September 29th, 1994, Obra Chandler was found guilty. In the murders. Of three counts of murder. On November 4th, 1994, Obra Chandler was sentenced to death. Now, I don’t know how you guys feel about the death penalty.

 

Speaker 3 32:11

I am actually not a fan of the death penalty. Except for Obra Chandler. Exactly, right. I mean, you consider that this is what the death penalty, it’s for that guy. Right. The interesting thing, Morris, was that the Jaws were so freaked out by this guy.

 

Speaker 3 32:36

He frightened them. In fact, they reported having nightmares. There was a couple of women on the jury that this case prompted them to keep a pistol. Oh, wow. When Chandler was sentenced to death, it was by way of electric chair.

 

Speaker 3 32:54

But by 2000, the mode of execution was now lethal injection.

 

Speaker 2 33:01

Right they should have just taken him into the bay and tied a block to him and thrown him in the water

 

Speaker 3 33:07

That would have been too kind for that guy. Yeah, well. So Oba Chandler, his last meal would be two salami sandwiches on white bread with mustard and a cup of coffee. And he would make no final statement, but he would leave a written hand note that lied and said, you are killing an innocent man today.

 

Speaker 2 33:31

And he wrote it with his other hand so it wouldn’t match the handwriting.

 

Speaker 3 33:35

No, it actually did. Of course it did. He was executed at 408 at Florida State Prison on November 15th, 2011. He spent 17 years on death row. Oh, wow. It’s crazy to think that this piece of shit was living off of Floridians want to be mad about the way tax dollars are being spent.

 

Speaker 3 34:01

But 17 years he was on death row.

 

Speaker 2 34:05

And two salami sandwiches he needed? Yeah. He needed two.

 

Speaker 3 34:09

he needed to.

 

Speaker 2 34:10

It’s like dude.

 

Speaker 3 34:12

Yeah. What a piece of shit. And the judge to the case, Judge Susan Schaefer, she had presided over the Capitol case and she was quoted as saying, he did not have a soul, I don’t think. Or if he did, it was a black one, which is kind of scary.

 

Speaker 3 34:32

Another footnote that I just wanted to add, there’s a couple of things. I just wanted to- You can’t let this one go, can you? No, I can’t because it’s a lot of- It’s a lot. It is.

 

Speaker 2 34:41

I’m going to get a pistol. I think we should get a pistol, honey.

 

Speaker 3 34:44

I think I agree with you. Holy moly. Um, DNA would link Oba Chandler to the unsolved murder. Yeah. Of Ivelisi Barrios -Burgis on February 25th, 2014. Wait, that’s-

 

Speaker 2 35:07

2014 is when they confirmed it, but when did that murder happen?

 

Speaker 3 35:11

That murder had happened in 1990, I believe.

 

Speaker 2 35:16

Oh, so during all this on the run shit, yeah, he’s killing other people and he’s.

 

Speaker 1 35:21

been executed by the time they figure out that they did it.

 

Speaker 3 35:25

Yeah. Oh, wow. And where was she killed? She was found sexually assaulted, bound, gagged, and her body under a mailbox in a residential neighborhood. So not a boat one. In Florida.

 

Speaker 2 35:37

Not a like online this is no

 

Speaker 3 35:39

In fact, she was working at a store. Her tires were slashed. And then a friendly stranger appears.

 

Speaker 2 35:47

This guy’s so Ted Bundy -ish. It’s almost like he learned from Ted Bundy, like the tricks of being the helpful person who then-

 

Speaker 3 35:54

That’s why I’m like, I don’t need any help. No, thank you. I’m good.

 

Speaker 1 35:57

It’s just infuriating, you know, the whole, the whole fucking thing is so horrible. And then like the Florida taxpayers spend millions of dollars keeping this guy alive for 20, what is it, 17 years?

 

Speaker 3 36:09

 

Speaker 1 36:10

And then the thing that always kills me is when, you know, it’s just like a thing we hear and we just sort of accept it now. But it’s like we’re thinking about like they get to pick their last meal. Yeah, fuck him.

 

Speaker 1 36:18

Fuck God. Like why do they get to pick their last meal? Like they should let them.

 

Speaker 2 36:23

pick it and then give them the opposite I mean it’s just it’s

 

Speaker 1 36:26

crazy. Like, I’m like. I’m like. I’m curious.

 

Speaker 3 36:29

I need to, what would be the opposite of two salami salamis?

 

Speaker 1 36:32

What is the opposite of two salami sandwiches? Here’s your ham, sir. Like, nobody offered these, he didn’t offer these women, like, not like the horror of the last moments of their lives, and he gets to pick his last meal.

 

Speaker 1 36:48

Like, it makes no sense.

 

Speaker 3 36:50

It’s you know, it was interesting because while maybe it’s haunting

 

Speaker 2 36:52

It’s like, here’s all the good food you wouldn’t have, but salami sandwich. Well, he gets to pick. That’s his favorite thing. They should all take turns spitting in it and then fucking give it to him.

 

Speaker 2 37:02

It’s all disgusting. Okay, so wait, I was gonna say, this guy has all the hallmarks of a serial killer. I can’t, like the only reason to keep him alive- That’s what the profile is. Yeah, the only reason to keep him alive is how many other things can we link him to, you know?

 

Speaker 3 37:18

Well, they have his DNA and they was able to link him to that murder after he was executed.

 

Speaker 2 37:25

Right.

 

Speaker 3 37:25

Any others? As far as I know, no, but… Yeah, there’s a lot of songs to remember.

 

Speaker 1 37:30

DNA collection in the 80s and 90s is not. No, it’s new. What it was. What it is.

 

Speaker 2 37:36

Yeah, so Jerry Kim

 

Speaker 3 37:39

The takeaway is that

 

Speaker 1 37:41

What would the takeaway be? This one’s interesting, because you feel like the takeaway from this one is pretty, I mean, to me, it’s like. Stranger danger is real. Right, and that if you’re women traveling alone, you should be extra careful, and that is true.

 

Speaker 1 37:57

But just to sort of pull some stats in, because this is a real anomaly. This is not, you know, this is one of those stories that you hear, and the way our brains work is, we like to take the worst case scenario and make that the likely scenario, and then prepare for that.

 

Speaker 1 38:13

But the reality is, as I was digging into this, 32 million women in America travel alone, meaning, you know, a long trip or a weekend trip every year. Who counted? The American Woman Traveling Alone Association, the AWTAA, outta, I don’t know.

 

Speaker 3 38:37

Did you just make that up? I was taking those stats in and then I was like, oh, okay.

 

Speaker 1 38:43

No, but these are the real stats. They did figure out, I don’t know how they figured out, but something like 30 million women travel alone every year, and less than a thousand of them are murdered. It’s a very small percentage, and most of those killings are people they are acquainted with.

 

Speaker 1 39:00

Let’s just say people who know. Right.

 

Speaker 3 39:02

And to your point, that is an anomaly, and that’s why it’s harder for investigators to find…

 

Speaker 1 39:11

Strain right less infrequent, but still fairly rare is sexual assault of women like while they’re while they’re traveling But that does happen more often, but again most of that is acquaintance or Like people that that uncle that are known to them However, all that said these are good tips whether you’re a man woman traveling alone traveling with someone just incorporate some safety into your Routine and these are all things that these women could not have done because these technologies did not exist, right?

 

Speaker 1 39:48

When these women that’s correct. Yeah the situation did 1989 They were just three women in a car. There’s no phones. There’s no GPS track. There’s no oh, let me nothing

 

Speaker 3 39:59

There’s no let me check the locate. Okay. I mean, there was none of that.

 

Speaker 1 40:04

These are just simple things you can do. You can text your location frequently to friends a couple times a day, let them know where you’re at, call home. If you’re backpacking, just be mindful of trying to stay in hostels that are registered where there’s other people.

 

Speaker 1 40:19

If you really wanna take it to another level, you can actually carry a GPS tracker that you can tell someone. I know a lot of parents do this with younger kids where they have apps on the phone that can tell them exactly where they are.

 

Speaker 1 40:32

You can do that proactively. Hey, just check in on me a couple times a day. Here’s the tracker app. So these are things you can do.

 

Speaker 2 40:43

can put a black can put the black box on our daughter yeah no it’s like a flight log yes

 

Speaker 1 40:49

But these are all things you can do but this the truth is it’s still it’s pretty safe to travel, you know, it’s not

 

Speaker 3 40:56

It is.

 

Speaker 2 40:57

I mean, it’s gotten a lot safer, obviously, like this was definitely a product of the time where you could.

 

Speaker 3 41:03

So heartbreaking. Yeah. I mean, this is really. Right. There’s.

 

Speaker 1 41:07

And the good news is that these things don’t happen that often. It’s horrible if they happen at all, but true monsters among us, it’s, it’s not.

 

Speaker 2 41:18

It’s not as I know it is interesting though like you say like oh they meet a helpful stranger who gives them directions but no that’s not enough he has to invite them to come that night on a midnight cruise or a sunset cruise and it’s just like you know like I said if Kim was away with our daughter and oh my god they called me up and said hey we’re gonna go on the sunset cruise with the guy we met at the gas station yeah he could go crazy

 

Speaker 3 41:46

I mean, would never do that. Well, that’s true.

 

Speaker 1 41:49

And Kim, having grown up in New York City, you’re automatically like, you know, fuck you.

 

Speaker 3 41:54

fault setting is no. These women are from the country. Exactly. That was my whole point. It was interesting because one of the things that I was thinking about, and I’m not suggesting that it could have even been, but I was like, did he pull a gun?

 

Speaker 3 42:11

It was three of them. Could they have kicked him in his face? You don’t know how it went down? He could have isolated each of them. Certainly. I just find myself.

 

Speaker 2 42:26

Let me explain how he did it, you know, I don’t mean to do that.

 

Speaker 3 42:30

I’m curious. I think that there is a point where you’re just in complete shock. But at that moment, that very moment when you realize, oh, he’s going to kill us. How come there’s cinder blocks on the boat?

 

Speaker 3 42:45

I kept wondering, like, what was going through their minds? What were they thinking? What was Joe thinking? And the thing that I kept coming across was just the punishment of having to watch the person before.

 

Speaker 3 43:04

It was three of them.

 

Speaker 2 43:07

You’re making it worse.

 

Speaker 3 43:08

I know, but I get it. It’s pretty brutal. It was, you know, a few years ago, I read this book called The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker. It was fascinating. And basically it was just sort of a way to keep yourself safe and protected.

 

Speaker 3 43:26

And a lot of it centered on really trying to tune in to people, your environment.

 

Speaker 2 43:36

fear is actually a gift to help keep you alive.

 

Speaker 3 43:40

Like a lot of times we are so socially conditioned to be polite that when somebody’s like, Hey, let me, you got a lot going on there. Let me take this bag and help you to your apartment. Right. You’re like, Oh no, I’m good.

 

Speaker 3 43:53

I do not need your help. But people because, and this is what he addresses in the book, because people are conditioned to be polite. You sort of push those feelings aside and he’s like, I submit to you that you should not be doing that.

 

Speaker 3 44:09

And you know, I had said to our daughter, you should read this book. Why didn’t you point to Jerry when you said that? I didn’t point to Jerry because she’s, she’s, she’s all of art. I had tried to encourage Gia to read the book because I felt like this is so important that she could really benefit.

 

Speaker 3 44:25

She’s like, I don’t, I got enough work to do.

 

Speaker 2 44:29

Well, don’t tell everybody that she hasn’t read it.

 

Speaker 1 44:32

Well, that is a particular issue for for women and girls, too. Right. Oh, no, it’s a great thing.

 

Speaker 3 44:40

He stressed that point, too, that women are conditioned to be polite, to be, you know, oh, you know, thank you. I will accept your chivalrous offer to carry whatever it is.

 

Speaker 2 44:55

It’s all based on the charisma of the person, because there have been plenty of women who had no problem turning down my offer for help. I’m just saying.

 

Speaker 3 45:09

What kind of help are you offering?

 

Speaker 2 45:13

I didn’t tell you about the boat, honey. Too soon. Yeah. Here’s the thing. It’s such a fine line between like, you don’t want to blame the victim. Right. It’s not their fault that this guy was a monster, but it’s like, is it better to be rude and alive or follow your intuition, be conditioned a little bit.

 

Speaker 3 45:37

Well, that’s the thing too, to your point. I don’t know that they, until the tide turned, I don’t think that they felt they had any reason.

 

Speaker 2 45:46

And this guy probably made it seem like there was absolutely no reason. He’s a fellow Ohioan. Yeah.

 

Speaker 1 45:52

I’ll say this is that I don’t think they did anything wrong, but I do think it’s a good idea if you’re traveling and whether you do it as a phone call or a text if your plans deviate and You’re going to do something like either an adventure that wasn’t on the itinerary or you’re met up with someone Who’s a new person a stranger?

 

Speaker 1 46:15

Who’s off the menu and you’re going to do something with them let someone let someone know that’s it Just tell someone you know hey we met this guy he’s going to take us on a cruise or he’s going to take us mountain climbing or whatever it is and Tell someone that you trust and love and if they say hey, you know what?

 

Speaker 1 46:35

Maybe don’t go do that think about not doing it, but at least you told somebody I think these women were Swept up in the moment they didn’t they were excited. They didn’t have cell phones They did make some calls from the hotel room for whatever reason they didn’t call anyone and say about They were going on this boat Not that that would have the sad thing is that would have saved their lives necessarily if they’ve gone But someone at least would have known yeah, maybe they could have found this guy faster right

 

Speaker 2 47:03

I was gonna say, this is an odd taste to like, I hate to do this, but looking at it from the point of view of the killer, like this was like a perfect crime potentially. It’s just like I hate in a movie when a bad guy is playing everything perfectly and then slips up and says the thing that they shouldn’t say or does something really stupid that is against everything that that character has done the whole movie.

 

Speaker 2 47:32

In this case, like this guy does this thing, he’s gotten away with it, but then he oddly admits it. And then he goes back to Florida over and over where he’s bound to get caught. Like really weird combination of like very smart, like genius level bad guy and then really dumb, but I guess that’s the sociopathic part of it.

 

Speaker 2 47:56

Like they don’t think the way normal people think or something, you know? I mean, it’s a bizarre mix of smart and dumb, but like, yeah, I mean, it’s motive -less, right? I mean, I said it before, like robberies, kidnap, like there’s a monetary, you’re trying to get something, gain something from it.

 

Speaker 2 48:16

There’s nothing to gain from this except a life on the run and nonstop, you know, looking over your shoulder in a sense, like why the fuck did he do this? You know, even if he robbed the three of them and yeah, I mean, that’s the thing.

 

Speaker 1 48:29

He’s a he’s a sick sick piece of shit. Yeah. Yeah

 

Speaker 2 48:32

Anyway, Kimmy, do you have any other takeaways?

 

Speaker 3 48:36

try to be a step ahead. Like, I don’t know, you know, my mind always goes to them on the boat and realizing that some fucked up shit was about to go down. And, you know, I’m like, oh my God, like, is that life now where you’re like, I’m going out on a date, but let me see, what am I gonna do if some fucked up shit goes down?

 

Speaker 3 49:01

I mean, it’s kind of a shame. It’s like, well, I’m gonna poke him in the eye or grab him by the testicles and like just have those when I was a kid growing up. That’s what my father would say to me, literally.

 

Speaker 3 49:19

He would literally just be constantly talking to me about the potential of being in a fucked up situation and what I needed to do to get out of it. Right.

 

Speaker 1 49:29

And how’s that going

 

Speaker 2 49:30

I was going to say it took about three dates before she grabbed my testicles.

 

Speaker 1 49:36

like poke him in the eye and grab the testicles is that is like how you say hello to Adam when he comes home before.

 

Speaker 2 49:43

You know, I was just also thinking, like, poor Hal, going through all that shit with your brother and your family and then losing everybody. Like, holy fuck.

 

Speaker 3 49:54

Well, I will say he suffered immensely and I’m sure it comes as no shock that he sunk into a very deep depression and was just in an absolute state of despair for years. But he would eventually come out of it and he would meet somebody and remarried in May of 1999, so about 10 years later.

 

Speaker 3 50:24

I just hope that he’s happy and he keeps mementos of his family. He has pictures of his family and toys of his girls as mementos.

 

Speaker 2 50:41

Brutal world out there. All right, well, that’s another episode of Slaycation. Yeah. All right. That was pretty awful. Yeah, well, yeah. Thank you for listening. Yeah, and don’t forget.

 

Speaker 1 50:58

leave a review I know it feels weird right

 

Speaker 2 51:07

No, these are truly roller coasters of emotions. And I think you started this one by saying how mad you guys were at this and now I’m mad. Everybody’s mad, but don’t be mad when you leave a review. Don’t be mad when you press five stars and you could reach out to us on our website, right?

 

Speaker 1 51:30

vacation .wtf. Yeah.

 

Speaker 2 51:33

at WTF. We own the, we own the WTF and what the fuck. Yeah.

 

Speaker 1 51:39

That’s what we keep saying on this show.

 

Speaker 2 51:40

And make sure you subscribe and we love you. Stay safe. Yeah.

 

Speaker 3 51:47

Yes, and thank you for listening, guys. We appreciate it. Totally. you

 

Speaker 1 51:52

Thank you.

 

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