Ep. 21 Making a Killing in Hongkong (Pt. 2)

The twisted conclusion to Episode 20 – Please listen to that one first! Robert and Nancy Kissel had it all. The perfect marriage. The high paying job. The $20,000 luxury apartment complex with all the Nannies, pools, and squash courts you’d ever need. So how did this storybook romance and life of luxury descend into mayhem, murder and… milkshakes??? Join us for the shocking conclusion to this case!


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our transcript


Speaker 1 00:00

Okay, so here we are, part two. If you haven’t heard last week, go back, listen to it, catch yourself up and join us here.


Speaker 2 00:20

and we’re back okay so it’s two thousand three okay robin nancy had been living in hong kong where rob was you know really rising through the the ranks of financial services and making tons of money


Speaker 1 00:32

renovations in her.


Speaker 2 00:33

happening in her dream house in Stratton, Vermont. And SARS has broken out, a pandemic in Asia. And so Nancy takes the three kids and a nanny, leaves Hong Kong to go to Stratton, Vermont to wait out this pandemic, while Rob stays behind in Hong Kong and keeps working for Merrill Lynch.


Speaker 2 00:53

So while Rob is having his back surgery that she’s being so kind to fly over for, Detective Shay sees her with Mr. TV Man. Who’s in New York now? Yes. Yes. Oh. Brought to New York by her.


Speaker 3 01:09

Okay, he didn’t drive there in his house.


Speaker 1 01:13



Speaker 3 01:15



Speaker 2 01:17

This episode is sponsored by crew


Speaker 3 01:19

America cuz I’ll tell you what those are really hard to park there’s a very hard to park in New York


Speaker 2 01:30

You never see an RV or die.


Speaker 3 01:32

level wide, pulling into New York.


Speaker 2 01:33

Yeah, fuck that oh my god, okay, so so they okay. That’s an issue obviously they fly back to by the way


Speaker 3 01:42

He must, like, when he sees Frank Shea’s number come up on his phone, yeah, every time.


Speaker 2 01:47

It’s just bad. Well now here’s where it gets even worse. Okay, so they’re back in in hong kong and What has a surgery his surgery they go back? I know Rob tells Shay can now now Rob and share kind of becoming friends right they like she’s working for him But they’ve just developed a fondness right each other right right to the point where Rob says to Shay You know Nancy, and I have our little cocktail every night.


Speaker 2 02:09

We have some


Speaker 1 02:10

scotch. Right. He likes this single malt scotch. Right. Robert. Yes.


Speaker 2 02:15

And they would have, back in Hong Kong, they have their scotch to relax together at night. And he mentions to Shay, he goes, you know, it’s funny, lately when I drink the scotch, I just feel a little weird, okay?


Speaker 1 02:26

And of course, initially, he dismissed it as well. He just had this surgery, I’m recovering my body, the meds, et cetera.


Speaker 2 02:33

And so Shay is like, dude, no, no, no. Test the scotch. Test everything. Shay is like, I’m telling you, my cop instincts here are saying test the scotch. And Rob is like, no, no, it’s just from the surgery.


Speaker 2 02:47

It’s fine, I’m fine. And also, Shay, because he’s become close to Rob, knows Rob’s a very trusting guy. And because Nancy has said, we’re gonna work on this, they’ve talked about the New York visit with the guy, they’re okay with it.


Speaker 2 03:02

They’re working through it. So Rob is trying to take the position of I’m going to trust her. Shay is like, I know you’re not gonna test the scotch. So he flies, he flies to Hong Kong. Shay gets on a plane, flies to Hong Kong, takes Rob to dinner at a fancy club, and says, here’s what’s, I’m telling you, here’s what’s happening.


Speaker 2 03:24

Your wife is poisoning you, right? He says, you are being poisoned. He’s trying to kill you. He’s trying to kill you. He has no proof. Okay, he’s just saying, no proof. He’s saying, I was a cop.


Speaker 3 03:34

He’s gonna take it to a bar and be like this is what scotch is supposed to taste


Speaker 2 03:40

No, he’s just saying, I’m telling you as a cop who’s seen it all. Right. Your wife is trying to kill you. Right. And you need to wake the fuck up. Right.


Speaker 3 03:48

No, my wife’s been fucking all around, but at least he’s brought us together


Speaker 2 03:56

What’s funny is Shay and Rob end up in a getting married. I’m kidding Gay for Shay


Speaker 1 04:11



Speaker 2 04:13

I’m glad you’re finding that so funny. What’s wrong with us? Okay, yeah, so basically he says you’re trying to kill you. Rob kind of realizes by the end is October, October 2003, right is when he’s kind of cut Rob’s come to the conclusion like it’s not going to work.


Speaker 1 04:32

I mean, he’s by this time he’d already found out that when he was in New York having the surgery She was cheating. She was fucking around


Speaker 2 04:40

It was just… I’m just not feeling it. They’re back in Hong Kong and the healing feeling isn’t working, healing feeling. It’s not happening. They’re not coming back together like he wants or like she wants.


Speaker 2 04:50

And he’d rather be with Che.


Speaker 1 04:52

And it’s unfortunate because I got the sense that he really wanted to make this work. He was willing to say, look, let’s do what we need to do for the kids, for each other. And he would have forgiven her and they would have just resumed their lives.


Speaker 1 05:10

But that was not to be.


Speaker 2 05:13

And so it didn’t it wasn’t working the Halloween weekend is coming up end of October 2003


Speaker 1 05:19

already now, at this point, had reached out to divorce attorneys and started the conversation. Right, in Hong Kong.


Speaker 2 05:27

Well, I don’t know whether the attorneys were in Hong Kong or where they where they were, but but he’d also start


Speaker 3 05:33

Have a whole divorce divorce


Speaker 2 05:39

We’ve got everything. You don’t have to leave. So leading up to Halloween, October 2003, that week, Rob is starting to tell friends, I’m going to talk to Nancy about a divorce. I’m going to talk to her on Sunday, because Halloween, we’re doing with the kids.


Speaker 2 05:53

We’ve got a party in the building, and we’re going to have fun and do all this stuff.


Speaker 3 05:58

It feels weird to ask for a divorce while you’re wearing a costume.


Speaker 2 06:03

He spends Halloween day, which is a Saturday, with his kids. They have fun. They make milkshakes. In fact, his daughter gives him a pink milkshake made from a special recipe in honor of Halloween. And they have a very cute, cute, fun day.


Speaker 2 06:19

Did mom touch that milkshake? And she had a play day.


Speaker 1 06:21

Chat a little play date.


Speaker 2 06:24

Yeah, mom did make the milkshake, but the little girl gave it to daddy.


Speaker 1 06:29

And there were two little girls. There was a play date and the dad of the little girl and Rob, of course, they all got to enjoy pink. They all drank the pink milkshake.


Speaker 3 06:41

Mm -hmm


Speaker 1 06:43

they did they they they sure did and that after


Speaker 2 06:46

Afternoon, there will be blood. As we said that he’s working seven days a week. So even though it’s Saturday, he has a prep call that afternoon for a big meeting coming up with the Bank of China, which he gets on.


Speaker 2 06:58

And his colleagues.


Speaker 1 07:00

auction. Yeah, the Bank of China was some kind of auction. Yeah, it was like a


Speaker 2 07:04

big deal they were getting ready for. And his friends, you know, his colleagues, his friends were on the call with him, said he sounded like he was on another planet on this call. Like totally unlike him.


Speaker 2 07:13

They said he just sounded completely whacked out and they were worried. The meeting is on Monday or Tuesday? I think it was Tuesday. Tuesday, okay. So the meeting rolls around. This is like the meeting he’s running.


Speaker 2 07:27

He doesn’t show up.


Speaker 1 07:29

Side note, Andrew Tanzer, who was the guy whose daughter was playing with Rob’s daughter, who had also partaken in strawberry milkshake confection, went home, passed out, and was so deep in that sleep that his wife became concerned and had even, in a phone call to Nancy, had expressed, I’m getting a little bit concerned here, I’m wondering if I should get EMS, and he actually would wake up with a ravenous appetite.


Speaker 1 08:07

The father? Yeah. Uh -huh. And would have no memory of what had even transpired.


Speaker 3 08:14

Mm -hmm. So the magic milkshake


Speaker 2 08:16

Milkshakes fucking people up. Yeah, so Rob’s missed this meeting. He hasn’t returned any calls for days at this point You know the friends call the police in Hong Kong They immediately go to the Kissel residence at this Park Tower apartments, and we’ll take a quick break


Speaker 4 08:36

The Hargan women seemed to have it all. From the outside looking in, we were blessed. My mom was amazing. But as detectives would soon learn, there was a lot going on inside the Hargan household. Ashley and I have been calling my mom in the house in Helen.


Speaker 4 08:52

No one’s answering. 63 -year -old Pamela Hargan gunned down in her own home. Her youngest daughter, Helen, lay dead upstairs.


Speaker 1 09:01

Patrol, when they arrived, assumed or thought that there might have been a murder -suicide.


Speaker 4 09:06

But for the detectives on the scene, there were things about the scene itself that were concerning to us on day one. Who would want to kill their mother and their little sister? There is no boogeyman here.


Speaker 4 09:18

It is exactly who we think it is. I’m Peter Vance, sat from 48 Hours. This is Blood is Thicker, the Hargan Family Killings. Listen to Blood is Thicker, the Hargan Family Killings, wherever you get your podcasts.


Speaker 3 09:37

All right, we’re back. We are so close to the shit hitting the fan.


Speaker 2 09:42

So it’s Halloween, around Halloween, October 2003. Robert Kissel and his wife Nancy have had some people over for Halloween. Some pink milkshakes were served to Robert. And some of the other guests, the guests who drank milkshakes, ended up sleeping for an incredibly long time.


Speaker 2 09:58

Robert has now missed a very important meeting and is not returning phone calls. And so the police have been summoned by his colleague David Noe to check and see what’s going on. So the police go to the Kissel apartment and knock on the door.


Speaker 2 10:16

Nancy answers it. And she says, oh, yeah, we had a huge fight. And I don’t know where he is. He walked out on me days ago. But if you see him, let me know because I don’t know where he is. Right.


Speaker 1 10:28

Right and she


Speaker 3 10:31

do they go in the apartment and look around or no I don’t know


Speaker 2 10:34

It didn’t seem like it from what I saw, but…


Speaker 1 10:38

He’s reported missing, she didn’t report him missing, and had instead sort of made it that they had had this big argument, and that he had tried to sexually assault her, and then took off.


Speaker 2 10:57

Mm -hmm. There’s another thing happening right around this time within like a day of this visit this building It’s just such a full -service building. You can do everything on site including have storage Downstairs, so every unit every apartment building has a dedicated storage unit in the basement.


Speaker 2 11:13

Love it. So someone notices a strange smell in the basement storage units hmm, and It’s a smell that’s really off -putting very very disgusting Ross. Why are you living here? I? Love Hong Kong in the Moo goo guy pan


Speaker 3 11:34

All right, so the police are summoned to investigate the smell


Speaker 2 11:39

Oh boy. This smell seems to be emanating from the unit belonging to Nancy and Rob. So the police go back up to Nancy and ask for the keys to her storage unit and she says, I’d rather not. And they say, we’d rather you did.


Speaker 2 11:52

Wait, what?


Speaker 3 11:55

She’s like, before you do, have a pink milkshake, everybody.


Speaker 2 12:02

So eventually they get the keys from her yeah, they open the unit


Speaker 3 12:06

She hides things like you hide things, Tim, I gotta say.


Speaker 2 12:11

So, she had oddly.


Speaker 1 12:17

called maintenance of the building. To report the smell?


Speaker 2 12:22

No, to ask for help. Because she had an old rug she didn’t want anymore. And she needed help bringing it down. So the building porters had taken this old rug and put it in the storage unit. So a couple of days earlier.


Speaker 2 12:40

From the house to the store, oh my god. So the cops open the thing, and the smell just assaults them. They’re like, there’s a dead body in here. It’s not even a question. They’re like, they’re like.


Speaker 1 12:51

Okay, there’s a buddy. There is a dead decomposing S -5.


Speaker 2 12:56

several days. Yeah. Yeah. And so they’re like, where could it be? Oh, look at this giant rug covered with pillows that has blood on it. Right. So they unroll the rug. The burrito of hell. They find Robert dead.


Speaker 2 13:14

40 years old. 40. 40. Yeah. Bloody. His body appears to have been bludgeoned to their eyes.


Speaker 3 13:22

Yes, oh, I thought it was gonna be like he died from pink milkshake and then well Oh, it passed him out, and then she beat him with things


Speaker 1 13:29

Bludgeoned him, allegedly. There was five blows to the head. It was pretty bad.


Speaker 2 13:36

Yeah, it was bad like bad to the extent that the pathologist said each of these blows Was strong enough to have broken his skull and driven shards of bone into his bone


Speaker 3 13:46

Holy shit. Yeah, and she’s strong enough to do that


Speaker 1 13:49

Well, she had this heavy statue from her…


Speaker 2 13:53

grandmother. It’s like a 15 pound or something like lead statue. Yes. Yes. She,


Speaker 3 13:58

She used that. It was a fake Oscar that she would practice her active speech with.


Speaker 2 14:06

It was the Caliente cab.


Speaker 1 14:10

The pothologist had found that Rob had been killed by five blows to the right side of his head. Oh, it should. By a blunt object. Right. The blows had been so hard that much of the right skull, as Jerry had said, had been crushed in upon his brain.


Speaker 2 14:28

Boy just to give you a little bit more insight into the crazy that is Nancy She hadn’t really thought about what she was gonna do after she killed him, right? So right she gives him a pink milkshake He sedated she bludgeoned him.


Speaker 2 14:41

What had happened was he had the pink milkshake. He didn’t feel well He went into their bedroom and passed out on the floor before he even made it into bed So that’s where she turns out she bludgeoned him was on the floor of their bedroom But she doesn’t know what to do with the body because she’s in a high -rise, right?


Speaker 2 14:56

So she ends up Sleeping for two days in the bedroom with his dead body like she just goes about life as a


Speaker 1 15:05

The kids told the maid, no, I don’t, yeah.


Speaker 2 15:08

Don’t clean in the room. Don’t clean in that room. Everything’s fine. So now she’s like living with his dead body for two days. She goes to a local store and buys a bunch of pillows and a rug.


Speaker 3 15:22



Speaker 2 15:28

It’s gonna be more than sage. Yeah, it’s gonna be a good lawyer So which also is like hilarious cuz the store was like, oh, yeah, she came in here all frantic buying pillows Yes, the pillows she thought would somehow contain the smell so she’d she’d wrapped his body up and Told the porters.


Speaker 2 15:45

Can you please come take this rug down and then put all these pillows on it that you close made of lime Yeah, I don’t know. Just if we see there’s I’m not gonna show cuz it’s I think they have Pictures of it literally just a rug with pillows on it and you’re like, oh my god horrible.


Speaker 2 16:01



Speaker 3 16:02

What a lackadoo plan. I mean, yeah, but also the evil she had the kid deliver the milkshake to him nice, and then she also poisoned the father and Other kid she did Yeah, but it wasn’t that wasn’t gonna kill them.


Speaker 3 16:18

That was just to knock yeah


Speaker 2 16:19

It was a mix of they figured out later, it was rihipponol, which is, you know, the brave drug and some other shit. But honestly, giving any of that to anybody is very,


Speaker 1 16:30

and get that drug in the United States.


Speaker 3 16:33

Don’t kid drink the milkshake too!


Speaker 1 16:35

I don’t remember. I’m pretty sure she was careful to not. Although, you know what, I don’t know. But that could actually-


Speaker 2 16:41

that milkshake could kill a person, a adult or a child. Yeah. So no ping pong cakes. So she is arrested on suspicion of murder suspicion. And what do you do? Right? Because now you’ve got father’s dead.


Speaker 2 16:59

She’s in jail. There’s no family there. You got a four year old, a six year old and a nine year old. Right. She pretty much orphaned.


Speaker 1 17:06

her kids.


Speaker 2 17:07

So the kids are sent to America to live with who? The brother. Uncle Andrew in his Connecticut mansion. Right. And Hailey. Nancy realizes she’s going to face a jury, but in Hong Kong. And what does she look like?


Speaker 2 17:25

Let’s go back to a picture of Nancy. So this is what Nancy looks like, right? Blonde, pretty, right? Oh, wait. I’m going to be facing a jury of Asian people in Hong Kong. It’s so weird. Maybe I should look like this.


Speaker 2 17:44

So she changes her appearance. She doesn’t even look like the same person. She literally tries to make herself look Asian with dark. She dyes her hair dark. She puts on this whole crazy makeup. It’s just a wild.


Speaker 3 17:59

She used the mickey Rooney kit for my breakfast at Tiffany’s. Oh man


Speaker 2 18:06

That is a deep cut. Okay, so the kids are now in Connecticut. She’s in Hong Kong trying to location. Right.


Speaker 3 18:13

We have the Chinese Zodiac signs tattooed on her to also help sell the…


Speaker 2 18:18

And we’d love to tell you that we’re in the final phases of the crazy here, but there’s actually There’s more there’s more, but wait there’s more there’s more. Oh, so so the prosecution says failing marriage money -hungry wife She’s in love with this TV repairman Yep hungry for the 18 million dollar


Speaker 3 18:38

He’s a TV repairman, don’t, he’s a home theater installer. It’s a little, be respectful, actually, be respectful.


Speaker 2 18:45

fired by his brother from the home theater company and now he’s doing TV.


Speaker 3 18:48

Okay. Frank Shea must have been crushed. First of all, it’s his best client. And second of all…


Speaker 2 18:55

She actually was, really. I can imagine. Frank was upset. Yeah. And so she caught wind that he was going to divorce her. And so she struck first, made this sedative milkshake, which she had her daughter deliver, so sick.


Speaker 2 19:06

Takes this lead statue, bludgeoned him and kills him. That’s the prosecution’s case. Right. Nancy’s defense. Mind you, she takes the stand too. She takes the stand. Into a packed courtroom, which includes the families, both her parents and his parents have flown over and his.


Speaker 2 19:25

His brother too? I don’t think his brother was.


Speaker 3 19:27

And the kids are out of the country, too, at this point. Kids are out, yeah. All right, so it takes the stand.


Speaker 2 19:32

She takes the stand and she says you guys have have this all wrong Oh, we weren’t who you thought we were and Robert especially wasn’t who you thought he was right everyone You think he’s this golden boy good dad nice guy.


Speaker 2 19:44

Let me tell you he would come home every night Get drunk snort piles of cocaine and then physically force me into sodomy and rough sex exactly


Speaker 3 19:56

Why do you say exactly like that? Because that is the truth. Why are you? She said exactly. And then just stared at me. Do you need to take like a


Speaker 2 20:04

I’m counseling very college.


Speaker 3 20:05

I don’t do cocaine.


Speaker 2 20:10

I don’t drink scotch and then she says her lover Michael in Vermont was just an escape from the nightmare marriage that she was forced into abuse right she has no memory of how she killed Robert but she does admit to killing him in a rage of self -defense you know so the cops obviously ask all the people that work in the building because basically when you live in one of these buildings with all these helpers your life is under 24 seven observation everyone sees everything right right and every single person who’s been in and out of this family’s life for the last you know eight or nine years like we have absolutely none of this there’s been no signs of struggle there’s been no signs of him on cocaine she’s she’s never told any of her friends about this before right right


Speaker 1 21:03

been to the police, there was never any reports. Again, there was nothing to substantiate these claims. This is Roz, I smell a rat.


Speaker 3 21:13



Speaker 2 21:15

And after, you know, after a few months, the jury…


Speaker 3 21:18

five men do they bring in any of these other people like the TV guy or any of that they don’t bring him in but they do


Speaker 2 21:24

Bring in witnesses right from the buildings Ross Ross has not brought it now. No damn Ross just stands on the sidelines reporting, okay, so After months of this trial this jury of five men and two women in Hong Kong unanimously find her guilty of murder


Speaker 1 21:41

Yes, and they didn’t need to be unanimous either. No.


Speaker 2 21:43

That’s not how Chinese the system works in China, but they were unanimous They were that she was guilty and they sentenced her to life in prison in China Hmm, this should be the end of the story, but there’s a little more.


Speaker 2 21:55

There’s a little bit more. Oh, we’ll get into


Speaker 1 21:59

Hi, we’ll be back with more Death Murder Kill in just a moment.


Speaker 3 22:05

Now back to sleekation.


Speaker 2 22:06

As Kim mentioned earlier, Robert’s father really did not like Nancy, right?


Speaker 3 22:12

This time it’s dad. Right. Father knows best. Did not like Nancy.


Speaker 2 22:16

Right. And there’s obviously now insane drama between Nancy’s parents and Robert’s parents because Nancy killed Robert’s parents son. Right. So the kids had been sequestered at Andrew’s house, Uncle Andrew’s house for a little bit, but they then are moved in with Nancy’s dad, Ira, and his third wife, Joni, who are elderly.


Speaker 2 22:43

Joni falls ill from the stress of all of this. So Nancy’s father decides he’s going to send the kids to live with Brooks. Who’s her? Who’s Brooks, you ask? Yeah, I was about to. Brooks is Nancy’s half sister from a prior, another marriage of her dad, a 24 year old medical student at the University of Cincinnati.


Speaker 2 23:04

Wait, what?


Speaker 3 23:06

Yeah, why couldn’t they stay with his brother? Well and Haley


Speaker 1 23:11

Well. Oh. So it seemed that Andrew and Halley were in the throws of a bitter.


Speaker 3 23:19

divorce. Oh. So that wasn’t working either. It wasn’t working.


Speaker 1 23:22

Great. And he got into a lot of trouble. More trouble.


Speaker 2 23:28

Yes, this guy so the answer to your question of why were they kids sent to live with Brooks the 24 year old medical students in Cincinnati who also has his mother Brooks his mother’s in Cincinnati so she can help but it seems insane, right?


Speaker 2 23:40

Yeah, seems absolutely insane. The answer is that there’s such drama between these two families that they’re basically using the children as Revenge chips, right? So Nancy’s family is trying to take the kids not to mention their trust fun Like they each kid is worth five million dollars also, right?


Speaker 2 23:58

Okay, okay So Nancy’s family is trying to play the game of like let’s keep the kids away from Robert’s family So they’re they’re with Brooks for like a hot minute But then Robert’s father bill goes to Brooks and says listen and and Brooks actually corroborates this now He’s actually a pediatric doctor now, but he says that bill very credibly threatened to ruin me He threatened to ruin everyone close to me.


Speaker 2 24:24

He said he would bankrupt Ira my father and he also said he would make sure that I never practiced medicine and he said and his threats were very credible He knew exactly how to make each of these things happen


Speaker 1 24:36

In fact, in a talk, he would say to him, essentially, he would say that he was a child molester. Why are you trying to watch these children? And work with children as a doctor.


Speaker 3 24:47

wait this is brooks’s roberts father bill roberts father bill says he’s


Speaker 2 24:52

going to make up a story about Brooks.


Speaker 3 24:54

Oh, Brooks is a man Brooks is a man. Oh, I just assumed it was a girl. Oh, no, it’s a guy. Sorry. Oh, okay Yeah, sorry, so they’re gonna make up a story about Brooks. Why would a 24 year old medical student?


Speaker 2 25:05

Um, okay. Meanwhile while this is going on Bill is simultaneously urging Andrew Uncle Andrew to just sue for actual custody rather than just being like the place where they stay, right? he’s like just sue for custody the kids right and Nancy’s father Ira has always found Andrew to be the least offensive of the Kissel family the least least well not that he’s not offensive


Speaker 3 25:33

Right. Well, this is also his judgment. I mean, it doesn’t have to be right or accurate. Right. So they’re playing this ping pong game with these kids. Yes. Please tell me the kids just wind up with Frank Shea.


Speaker 3 25:44



Speaker 2 25:45

Or Roz. I wish. Roz and Frank get them together. Yeah, I was going to say, it’s a me cue.


Speaker 3 25:51

you’re not the trailer with the TV.


Speaker 2 25:52

guy so Andrew successfully petitions for custody right he gets the kids now the kids are living with Andrew and Haley who are having troubles right but Andrew you know he’s got money he’s got 16 luxury cars he’s got an 80 -foot yacht all kinds of real estate deals stacked on top of each other so on paper on paper he seems


Speaker 3 26:15

But what’s going on? Well, he seems, I guess.


Speaker 1 26:17

The lifestyle that the children are accustomed to yeah, but what’s really happening Kim? Well, Haley and Andrew aren’t in the throes of a bitter divorce Okay, and their relationship and marriage begin to implode, right?


Speaker 3 26:34

And how many kids do they have? Two. Two kids on their own. Okay, so there’s three kids being added to two kids.


Speaker 1 26:38

At this point, Andrew was having some more trouble. Mm -hmm. I think it was something with the co -op, because they had done a little deeper, they had dug a little deeper and had found out that there was even more.


Speaker 1 26:55

Yeah. Or with the New York co -op.


Speaker 2 26:57

Yeah, and then on top of that, they also found out that a lot of these deals he was doing in Connecticut, where he was just like making all this money, what he was actually doing was taking out multiple mortgages on the same property.


Speaker 2 27:13

And he was doing this by, he had a woman who worked for him who was a notary public who he took her notary stamp and created fake documents that showed that different properties were paid off and would go to another bank and say, I paid off this property.


Speaker 2 27:26

Can I get a mortgage on it? So he had all these banks giving mortgages on the same properties, and eventually the law called the law.


Speaker 1 27:34

And at this time, too, he was wearing one of those things around the ankle. Oh, a monitor? Yeah.


Speaker 3 27:41

Oh, house arrest? Yeah.


Speaker 2 27:43

Yeah, over this over these mortgage swindle scams because it was it was a huge amount of money It was like 20 million dollars And and it was now because you’re doing this with banks all over the place it’s now a federal issue Right.


Speaker 2 27:59

So now you’ve got the co -op is still after him as Kim said there was more shit there You’ve got banks after you’ve got investors. You got the feds


Speaker 3 28:07

Believe how much money you can make if you steal a notary stamp


Speaker 1 28:11

Right? He has it coming from Malone. Yeah.


Speaker 2 28:14

It’s right. So now the kids are back there, but they’re this is not a good situation


Speaker 3 28:20

But also who would the kids go with if like he splits up with Halle this like she wind up with the kids So he wind up alone with five kids or well, they turn to Jane. So Andrew and Robert’s sister Jane Andrew and Robert’s sister.


Speaker 3 28:33



Speaker 1 28:34

Well, she kind of we haven’t talked about her before well No, because she cut herself off from the family like she’s right like when they were going on those skiing trips She wasn’t doing it


Speaker 3 28:45

She was like, nah. So there’s a system.


Speaker 1 28:46

Okay, right and where is she she was living with her Gentile husband in the Midwest interesting detail


Speaker 2 28:58

So Jane, so then Jane, it’s actually Jane.


Speaker 3 29:02

Gentle, like you just read it wrong.


Speaker 2 29:06

So now Jane petitions for custody. Now think about this, these kids were living in Hong Kong, then they were in Vermont, then they were back in Hong Kong, then they were with Andrew, then they were in Cincinnati with Brooks, then they were back with Andrew and Haley, and this is all in the space of like six or seven months.


Speaker 2 29:19

So now Jane’s like, I’m gonna petition for custody of these kids.


Speaker 3 29:24

Also, does the girl realize she gave her dad the poison milkshake? Oh, I’m sure. I’m sure. She knows. I’m sure. They should be living with their therapist.


Speaker 2 29:33

In the process of petitioning for custody, Jane has to make it known why she thinks that Andrew and Hailey are not an appropriate family, right? Now, Andrew and Hailey had no problem doing that when they were petitioning for custody and saying what a bad home Brooks was and this and that.


Speaker 2 29:50

But Jane has to, in her public filing for custody, say… Shit on her brother and… I mean, let’s just… There’s nothing to shit on. Just be honest.


Speaker 1 29:59

You still didn’t endear her, too.


Speaker 2 30:02

Yeah, right, so he leaves this did you see this message the voice message can I read it please please I couldn’t I really wish I could have found the voice message


Speaker 3 30:11

You have a transcript of a voice message from that Andrew left for leaves for Jane after she has now Spiled the tea on yeah, okay tea


Speaker 2 30:22

It’s hot. It’s hot tea, super hot, like boiling tea because this whole thing is already now like this is a huge news story in Hong Kong Yeah, it’s a pretty big news story in the States, right? And now There’s a public filing that reveals all of this craziness happening with Andrew and Haley


Speaker 1 30:39

Function the man stuff that we have


Speaker 3 30:41

haven’t even mentioned.


Speaker 2 30:42

There’s a lot. Okay. So so the Andrew Kissel leaves this message for sister Jane the day after she files for custody saying Jane it’s your ex -brother. You’re famous. You’re on the front page of the New York Times.


Speaker 2 30:55

You should get it You’re quoted you’ve managed to do what dad has tried to do for 75 years tear this family apart You’ve done that and now we’re going to bury you Jane Yep This is a very special Yeah


Speaker 3 31:14

I don’t even think this is hilarious. It’s a taller man. I just think.


Speaker 2 31:20

I think this family is just like, what?


Speaker 3 31:24

Like is this what despicable me was based on?


Speaker 1 31:28

I don’t know, I feel sorry for those kids. Yeah, of course. And it was interesting too, during this period. She wasn’t writing her children, she wasn’t really trying to communicate with her children.


Speaker 1 31:39

Yeah, not at all. But she was sending. Oh, the TV guy. Oh yes, the most cringy letters. Oh my God, it was so cringy.


Speaker 3 31:52

The letter she was writing her.


Speaker 1 31:53

Oh my God, yeah, to use the urban vernacular of kids today. It was cringy. Right. Was he right?


Speaker 3 31:59

writing her back? No. No.


Speaker 1 32:01

No. Right. He had kind of moved on.


Speaker 2 32:05

Yeah, he had, like, another lady living with him instead of, like, just starting out.


Speaker 3 32:09

He started up his house and drove away.


Speaker 1 32:14

Ha ha ha.


Speaker 2 32:16

That’s the beauty of a mobile. Yeah, it is. Maybe that’s you don’t need to buy new letters


Speaker 1 32:22

Maybe that’s right.


Speaker 2 32:27

Andrew now so many players in this right so and so Andrew Roberts brother Andrew the feds have caught up the banks have caught up The car everything is imploded imploded right his wife is done. She is


Speaker 1 32:37

packing her shit up and the kids yeah


Speaker 3 32:42

kids now go with Haley no they’re going to Jane no yeah there


Speaker 2 32:46

Robert’s kids Robert and Nancy’s kids are with Jane. Okay Halley’s kids are with Halley, right? So Andrew cuts a deal with prosecutors for prison time. He says I’ll do a deal I’ll take prison and reduce sentence in exchange for some whatever cooperation


Speaker 3 33:01

And he’ll turn himself in. Can I be in the same prison as Nancy?


Speaker 2 33:05

No. Because the story needs to continue. No, it’s the prison for it. So on April 3, 2006, a few days before Andrew is going to plead guilty and get this sentence that he’s agreed to, Haley’s moved out at this point.


Speaker 2 33:16

He’s living alone. The movers are coming to collect the last of the furniture and put it wherever it’s going. And they go into the basement. And there they discover Andrew Kinzel, his shirt over his head, his body stabbed multiple times, dead at 46.


Speaker 2 33:33

Wait. What? We’ll be right back with more Slaycation.


Speaker 3 33:41

All right, now back to Salication. Now he killed himself.


Speaker 2 33:46

There was this theory that he killed himself to make it look like a murder so that the insurance money would go to him.


Speaker 1 33:55

Kids yeah, but


Speaker 3 33:57

But also make his, I mean his wife, I guess, or Hailey would be suspicious, they would suspect her, or no, she’s already out. They, no.


Speaker 1 34:07

But although Bill would, not Bill, yes, Bill, the patriarch, yeah, did sort of put that out there. That it was her. That it could have been.


Speaker 3 34:16

But she’s like, I’m already out. Why would I need to kill this guy? Oh, unless there’s insurance money. Oh my goodness. Yes


Speaker 1 34:23

So their finances are so tied up with litigation and… It’s a mess.


Speaker 2 34:29

Yeah, it’s just a mess so he’s dead. He’s dead. The two brothers are both dead. They’re both dead Andrews buried shit He’s buried in Bergen County. Whoa next to his brother Rob Only a dozen people attend including your mother


Speaker 1 34:45

That’s not true, that’s not true.


Speaker 3 34:49

She does like a good funeral, she calls them funnerals.


Speaker 2 34:53

Yeah, so he’s buried next to his brother. Holy shit. Yeah, Nancy’s back in Hong Kong. She She appeals her conviction and she even gets a new trial. She does Well first appeals to nine in two thousand and two thousand ten She appeals that claiming that there was poor jury instructions and problems with the handling of the evidence, right?


Speaker 2 35:14

The court agrees. Yes. Oh and orders a retrial which begins January 10th 2011 March 25th 2011 a scant two months later. She’s once again unanimously found guilty of murder and Life in prison life in prison at the high lamb Center for women.


Speaker 2 35:36



Speaker 3 35:38

How old is she at this point?


Speaker 1 35:40

She would be in the 40s? Yeah, she was.


Speaker 2 35:43

Wow, so yeah, so crazy stuff and then you know in terms of Andrew and his stabbing stabbing in the basement in 2008 his chauffeur and the chauffeur’s cousins are arrested. Well Yeah Yeah, you know one of why?


Speaker 2 35:59

Because they were helping him launder money with all of his schemes with these mortgages And they knew he was about to go in to turn himself in in a few days for his sentencing and that part of his deal Was some cooperation.


Speaker 2 36:12

Oh, so they thought they were about to be found out Oh shit, so they killed him and they all end up in prison


Speaker 3 36:21

Gotta say I do love this mingling of the hyper rich and the layman. Yeah, it’s like it’s a nice


Speaker 2 36:28

It’s an upstairs downstairs episode. Yeah, it really is.


Speaker 3 36:32

like the super wealthy and the TV guy and the chauffeur. We’re all in this together.


Speaker 2 36:36

This is the Downton Abbey of Slaycation.


Speaker 1 36:38

Yeah, I mean in the TV guy. He just kind of a very low profile right at this point


Speaker 3 36:44

Now Roz I have to bring it up only because you’ve mentioned her. We’ve we’ve made jokes obviously, but hey Roz Yeah, where does the Roz fit in I had lunch with Roz last week, okay? Roz is great


Speaker 2 36:59

pack a day, but she eats plenty of yogurt and eats steak and she’s doing great.


Speaker 3 37:03

She was their neighbor in New York, but she knows, what does she know, everything?


Speaker 2 37:07

You know right Ross from New York. She right. She’s great. She’s great. Let me tell you I don’t know where she is now, but she was she was she showed up at these interviews. I’m like I love this woman Oh, so she was just yeah, she was in a background


Speaker 3 37:19

background. Okay. Yeah. Oh, wow.


Speaker 1 37:22

Nancy would continue to write him every day the TV got letters. Yes, right Yes, at first the TV guy and his new wife would read the letters and they would be amused Right, but then after a while it started to get on her nerve an hour later It would started to get a little much he ended up putting all the letters in storage and then the letters kept coming and then eventually he would reach out to the facility where Nancy is imprisoned and unsubscribe Exactly right basically say make it stop right


Speaker 3 38:00

I could probably make a book out of it my crazy ex -girlfriend. Here’s her notes


Speaker 2 38:05

Yeah, so this was a journey right the journey what yeah


Speaker 3 38:11

Did they ever make a movie on this or anything or a TV show or I mean they’re free for us. There are


Speaker 1 38:17

docu -series I’ve seen docu -series on this before there’s also a book by Joe McGinnis called never enough never enough yes hmm which gives you if you want to do a deep dive right looks


Speaker 2 38:31

like it’s been covered on a couple of TV movies and crime shows by the way the murder this is there’s a podcast about it this is usually referred to as the milkshake murder the milkshake murder


Speaker 3 38:44

Mm -hmm. Yeah, right there goes that title. Mm -hmm. I’ll come up with something else But the point is I think the big moral is honey having a nice apartment isn’t the end Everything ends well, so maybe you know


Speaker 1 39:02

dream apartment.


Speaker 2 39:03

I’d still like the money, but yes. I was mad because I wanted to call this episode Kistles of Death. Ha ha ha ha!


Speaker 3 39:11

Is that taken?


Speaker 2 39:14

I was like I was like oh I’m so clever and then it turns out when doing I’m doing my research for this in April 2006 New York magazine did a very extensive article on this called Kistles of Death. Nice.


Speaker 3 39:28

Well, at least everybody is disrespectful. It’s nice to know that we’re not the ones.


Speaker 2 39:36

I have been refreshed. The reviews will tell you I am empathetic, compassionate, and tolerable. Right. So.


Speaker 3 39:42

What is the takeaway? If your origin story begins on a nude beach, I would reconsider that. Come on.


Speaker 2 39:48

That’s not what’s that? That’s not real take away


Speaker 3 39:50

It’s not I don’t have take away either. I wish someone would take me away Kim


Speaker 1 39:56

You’re good at this. It’s hard to have a takeaway with this because it just really felt like they were just full speed ahead towards this disaster. There was no sane people around them really, like as family members in their lives.


Speaker 3 40:11

You know what? That’s that’s exactly it. There is nobody there to ground any of this because it was all fraught there was a lot of hypocrisy like she’s money obsessed he or he is making tons of money and Giving her this lifestyle that you’d think that she would love I mean that she doesn’t love it because she don’t know she does She loves it, but she doesn’t get it.


Speaker 3 40:30

She doesn’t want right. She around a lot of people to show off And so she had to come back. There’s just like you have too many kids. It feels like they have different goals


Speaker 1 40:41

When she was pregnant the third time it was reported that it was in his urging because he wanted a son Okay, and she was not right, but she’s not trying to be a mother. Well, you know again. That’s a takeaway No, you can say no you could say you know what I’m done having kids Yeah, not doing that some people only say no look.


Speaker 1 41:04

I have a friend who literally said to her husband After she had had their one and only child. Yeah, if you’re looking to have more Perhaps you should move on


Speaker 3 41:15

Wow. I remember when you said that to me. I did not say that to you. That’s alright, I was thinking the same thing.


Speaker 2 41:23

Just to just to let you know the kids are yeah, they are right. They’re doing okay. Yeah, they’re actually being raised By Jane in West in Seattle, I believe where they are now and by all accounts I mean, obviously they’re trying to keep these their lives Private and away from the crazy but by all accounts from what we’ve seen that they’re doing well.


Speaker 2 41:45

Okay, they’re happy They have friends they’re involved in sports and stuff like that But they’re but they would be now in their 20s. Yeah late teens early 20. So they’re probably in college or whatever at this point


Speaker 1 41:58

So the youngest one would be in their mid to late twenties now. So the older ones are probably, if not 30, rapidly approaching. But my whole thing, honestly, is really about the kids. I’m just always taken back by the selfishness of these parents in particular that are really just so self -obsessed that they’re not thinking about their children.


Speaker 1 42:27

Like this mother to have her child give her father, I don’t get it. I don’t relate to it. It kind of pisses me off because you don’t need to have kids. You don’t. You really don’t. And the idea of just bringing life into this world and then fucking them over like this, it’s just, it’s kind of disgusting.


Speaker 1 42:54

I think it’s too easy for people to have kids and be responsible for the development of human minds. It’s kind of scary at the people that are out there raising children and being responsible. And it goes to show you, it doesn’t matter.


Speaker 1 43:13

It doesn’t matter your socioeconomics, your wealth, your privilege. You’re parking. An asshole is an asshole no matter what. A dysfunctional family could be a family of wealth or poverty.


Speaker 3 43:33

Right, that is a great sentiment and a great way to end this. I will say, listeners, if you have any thoughts or any take away, we’d love to hear it. So let us know on our Facebook group, Slaycators Only, or you can email us, or you can let us know on Spotify.


Speaker 3 43:50

But I do have one important… Of course! There’s only one more thing to add.


Speaker 2 43:55

One important thing that speaking of taking away right as mentioned Andrew brother Andrew He of the mortgage fraud and whatnot. He did have 18 luxury cars in his collection But one of those cars was actually a vintage Car Hitlermobile it was and it was ultimately auctioned off to help pay the 20 to 30 million dollars in debt owed to the IRS in various places the car was the original 1984 Pontiac Trans Am used in what TV series Pontiac 19.


Speaker 2 44:27

I think mid -80s


Speaker 3 44:29

No, no, that was that wasn’t it. No, I didn’t watch that. Oh wait Was it Knight Rider? Mm -hmm?


Speaker 2 44:38

to talk it said to get me the fuck out of here this guy’s crazy


Speaker 3 44:44

Michael Michael don’t drink the milkshake not drink the milkshake All right, so now we have a new great way to go out Let us know if you have any takeaway


Speaker 1 44:56

Bye guys!


Speaker 3 44:58

Hey guys, we love you.


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