Ep. 4 Mysterious Murder in Mexico

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Podcast Teaser

Kim: Yes, thank you guys for listening and joining us on another episode of Slaycation.

Jerry: You didn’t say it like with a down, like an episode of…

Adam: It sounded like we were coming into the episode. Oh, yeah.

Kim: Wait, what?

*Song Plays*

Adam: Pack your body bags. We’re going on a Slaycation. I’m your co-host Adam Tex-Davis, and I’m joined by my wife and true crime aficionado, Kim.

Kim: Hi.

Adam: Hi, honey. And my longtime friend and business partner and occasional true crime producer, Jerry Kolber.

Jerry: Hello.

Adam: And we’re talking about murders that happen while you’re on vacation. They pick the cases and I get to hear about them along with you, the listeners, and then we all get reminded what a fucked up world we’re living in. Before we start, I was trying to find a statistic for how many people actually get killed on vacation each year, and it was kind of tough to pin down. I did read somewhere that there were like 2,000 murders of Americans traveling abroad in the last 10 years, which averages out to about 200 episodes a year for us. But before we get into the case, I just wanted to throw a question out to the group. Why do you think there are so many vacation murders?

Jerry: Are there? So you’re saying there’s 2,000 murders in the last 10 years? But like over how many trips, you know, is that like 100 million trips? Because it might actually be that there’s not that many vacation murders.

Adam: Well, you’re just saying like based on the overall number.

Jerry: Yeah, because I always look at things, like I could say like, there’s 2,000 murders and 4,000 people went on vacation. 50% of them got murdered.

Adam: That’s a bad number. But like if 2,000 people got murdered over the last 10 years and 300 million people went on vacation, I mean, it’d be better if it was zero, but 2,000 is a pretty small percentage.

Adam: Right. But what if it was like a roller coaster? And like, hey, 2,000 people have gotten killed in the last 10 years on this.

Jerry: Definitely not going on a roller coaster.

Adam: Yeah. It’s funny how you play at the stats.

Jerry: Yeah.

Adam: What do you think, Kim?

Kim: I was just wondering if we’re going to differentiate between just getting killed or a murder.

Adam: Okay. So like on this show, right? We cover people who murder each other while they’re on vacation. And then there’s also people that get murdered by outside forces.

Kim: Exactly.

Adam: So, yeah, I couldn’t differentiate between that when I was looking at the stats, but I will say, I’m always more fascinated by the couple that’s trying to murder each other.

Kim: Yeah. Why though?

Jerry: That’s a very good question.

Adam: That’s a great question for my wife. Yes.

Kim: Why are you all up on that?

Adam: By the way, happy anniversary tomorrow, honey.

Kim: Yeah.

Adam: Tomorrow’s our actual anniversary.

Kim: Yes, it is.

Jerry: We’ll be celebrating with murder.

Adam: The couple that slays together stays together. But look, here’s the thing. Getting away with murder is very hard. It’s almost nearly impossible with today’s forensic technology. The video cameras are everywhere. But for some reason, vacation murders just feels refreshingly doable.

Kim: Well, when you consider too all the craziness with extradition laws and how long that takes, you can create a whole new identity in that.

Adam: That is true.

Kim: Not that I’m thinking about it.

Adam: I mean, obviously, your guard is down on vacation. I mean, not mine. I’m always on the lookout. But on vacation, seriously, you know, you drink more. You’re suddenly in strange or deserted places. You’re near cliffs. You’re on boats. You’re diving in the ocean. You’re renting mopeds.

Kim: And you’re relaxed.

Adam: Yeah, you’re relaxed.

Kim: You’re relaxed.

Adam: You’re hiking. You’re doing shit you don’t ordinarily do, like parasailing and zip lining.

Kim: No, I’m not.

Adam: You’re not. Yeah. But basically, what I’m saying is if you can’t kill someone on vacation and get away with it, then you shouldn’t even be killing. It’s probably not for you, right? It’s really…

Jerry: That’s your bar.

Adam: That’s the takeaway.

Kim: That’s the takeaway for you.

Adam: It’s just not for you. Killing is not for you. Anyway…

Jerry: I want to throw in one stat.

Adam: You got a stat?

Jerry: Yeah, just give me a second.

Adam: I knew I could perk up your stat.

Jerry: You know I love the stats.

Adam: I know.

Jerry: Well, because stats are so interesting. I mean, stats are a way to actually see if something is actually a big deal or not. Because sometimes you throw out a number and you’re like, that sounds horrible. And you’re like, but it’s actually not that horrible.

Adam: Right.

Jerry: I mean, unless it’s you. So, number of homicides in the United States from gun deaths in 2022 in the United States, we had 19,592 people killed by a gun in 2022. And we’re talking now, in the last 10 years, 2,000 United States citizens were murdered on vacation. Right?

Adam: Right.

Jerry: Now, that 19,000 number is not all homicides. That’s what I’m trying to figure out here is…

Adam: But a gun is not how you kill someone on vacation. No. Right? Because the vacation aspect of it is that you could kind of get away with it because like, “Oh my God, there was this horrible accident”. It’s not like, “Oh, we went on vacation, accidentally shot my wife in the hotel room”. Right?

Jerry: Right.

Adam: It’s more like, “Oh my God, the parachute didn’t open. Or the scuba gear failed”.

Jerry: That’s more typical. It’s some sort of accident.

Adam: Right.

Jerry: I think that the reason there are vacation murders is it just, it’s like your guard is down. Right. You’re having fun. Like Kim said, you think you have this opportunity to maybe not get extradited or start a new identity.

Kim: Exactly.

Adam: It’s doable.

Jerry: It’s doable.

Adam: It feels doable. But here we are with our show of all these people that got caught. So maybe don’t do it.

Jerry: Don’t do it.

Kim: Don’t do it.

Adam: So let’s just jump into a case of someone who maybe did do it or maybe not. I don’t know. Kim, what do you got for us?

Kim: Well, either way, it’s all about the who, where and what the fuck happened of it all. So let’s start with that.

Adam: Let’s dive in.

Kim: So one of the interesting things about this case is that it just happened. It happened at the end of 2022. And there’s still a lot of information that we don’t have because it’s so new and so recent.

Adam: All right. Let’shear about it.

Kim: Today we’re going to be talking about a gentleman by the name of Jose Gutierrez. Full name is Jose Melicio Gutierrez Padilla. The interesting thing is, I don’t know if any of you have dated Latinos or Latinas. They can have very long names.

Jerry: Yes. My husband, Brian Suarez is actually Brian Edward Suarez.

Kim: Exactly.

Jerry: Very long, right?

Kim: It’s a lot.

Jerry: Also not really Latino, but you know.

Kim: Still, it’s still in the Latino fashion.

Jerry: Growing up in Miami. Yes. There was a lot of people that had like multiple names.

Kim: It’s an interesting thing because they have their father’s name, their mother’s name, their pet’s name. I’m just kidding. They don’t have their pet’s name, but they represent everybody in the family. It seems

Adam: Is that why he was murdered?

Kim: No.

Adam: This name is too long. You got to go about it.

Kim: Well, anyway, Jose was born on April 5th, 1986, and he was the oldest of seven siblings. Originally from Leon, Mexico, Jose grew up and spent most of his life in Hamilton, Ohio. Jose was the first in his family to go to college. He attended school at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, where he would earn a bachelor’s degree and a master’s in architecture. On February 2020, Jose joined Champlin Architects in Cincinnati, Ohio as an architectural project coordinator. So that’s the start of Jose’s life.

Jerry: And he was one of these kids, his family says from a very young age, very focused on having a career, was always into architecture. This was his dream. So he pursued his dream and was living it.

Kim: Fun fact, he, following high school, worked in construction, and that was where he discovered his passion for architecture design. So it seemed like he was in a good place. He had at this point.

Adam: Except that he’s in Ohio

Jerry: Where your daughter is.

Adam: Didn’t say she’s in a great place either. Oh, wow.

Kim: Anyway.

Adam: Sorry.

Kim: Jose had moved back to Ohio after a stint in Boston to be closer to his family, and he had begun to take steps to start this next chapter in his life’s journey by proposing to his girlfriend Daniela Marquez Picardo.

Jerry: Who he met at a party. He’s, you know, because his family’s from Mexico. He goes back to Mexico now and then. And a couple of years before proposing to her, he had been to a party in Mexico, met this beautiful woman. They fell in love and they were planning to get married.

Adam: Let’s join our seven names.

Kim: Exactly. It was interesting because in my research, I had come across a lot of photos and videos of them together, looking young and fresh faced and ready to take on the world together. Jose was 36. Daniela was 31. And I imagine that it felt like the perfect time for them to start planning their future and their lives together. There was this video I had come across where she was sitting at this table and was before this candle, you know the one that looks like fireworks.

Adam: Like a Roman candle?

Kim: Yes.

Adam: Okay.

Kim: And he had gotten up and you see him stand up and on bended knee, he presents what appears to be a ring to Daniela. And the body language is definitely indicative of a joyful proposal.

Adam: And then the Roman candle goes off.

Kim: No, it does not. But anyway. So Daniela was an interior designer and received her degree with a master’s in architectural design.

Adam: They met randomly or they met like an architectural party or something in Mexico. Hey, bring all your architecture friends and we’ll have a little.

Jerry: I don’t know. I know they met in Mexico. I don’t know if it was a Mexico architecture.

Adam: What are the odds, right?

Jerry: Well, or maybe you’re at a party and you’re talking to lots of people and, “Oh, you’re an architecture. So I am”. And next thing you know.

Adam: I only thought sitcom dads were architects. I didn’t realize actual people.

Jerry: Yeah, I know. There’s actual people that have to design and make buildings.

Adam: I guess so. Yeah.

Jerry: Yeah.

Kim: It’s a real thing.

Adam: It’s a real job.

Jerry: I know it seems made up, but architecture is a real job.

Adam: Did he have plans unspooled on his desk at all times? Anyway. Okay. So he proposes, she accepts.

Kim: Yes. So Daniela lived in the Jalisco region of Mexico. And according to Jose’s family, Jose would make this trip to visit Daniela pretty regularly. Looking forward to the Christmas holiday and finalizing a wedding date for sometime in September, 2023, Jose booked his flight.

Adam: Okay. So she’s in Mexico and he’s in Ohio

Kim:. Right. So it’s a long distance relationship.

Adam: Gotcha. But he’s proposed

Kim: Okay. He’s proposed. She’s accepted. Okay. And he’s going to return there, spend the holidays with her and her family. Gotcha.

Adam: Here comes the fun part.

Kim: So on December 22nd, 2022, Jose boards a flight out of Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky International Airport to Zacatecas, Mexico. And according to Jose’s father, Enrique Melecio, Jose would spend Christmas with his fiance and her family. And then they would meet up and join his family in Cancun, Mexico to bring in the new year. So on Christmas day, having spent the day with his fiance and her family, Jose, Daniela, her sister, Viviana, and their cousin Irma went out to continue the holiday festivities with dinner and drinks at a restaurant called the Solana Resto Bar. And the foursome was seen and it was confirmed by CCTV that they were there for at least a couple hours. And the plan was that they would head back to Daniela’s mom’s and spend time there. But the group never made it. And a missing persons alert would be issued.

Adam: Oh boy. All of them.

Kim: All of them.

Jerry: The missing persons alert was issued because it was December 25th. They were headed on the road. And Daniela sent her mom a live location pin from her phone, which was odd. Very odd. Right.

Kim: No text.

Jerry: Nothing.

Adam: Oh, no context.

Jerry: Just a live location pin. Right. Which she saw was on a highway. And then she saw the pin veer off the highway. And at that point, she was like calling the guards, like, “what’s going on?” Called it in.

Adam: You got to kind of assume like that kind of pin sending is like a “Emergency … Help” type thing. Or do you think it’s…

Jerry: Yeah, I think if you get a pin from a loved one, that’s a…

Kim: That’s going to scare the shit out of you.

Jerry: That’s a scary thing, right? Because you’re like, why are they sending me a pin? I think she tried to text her and got back an address maybe. But she didn’t get back anything that would indicate like, I’m fine. Right. You know, it was just…

Adam: But the pin looked like it was moving.

Jerry: The pin at the time was moving. And then it veered off the highway in a way that was very alarming. But that just set off all kinds of alarm bells for her mom.

Adam: Yeah. As it should.

Kim: Yeah.

Jerry: That sucks.

Kim: Yeah. So it would be in mid-January of 2023 where the SUV that they were in was located near the town of Tepatango. I think that’s the way…

Adam: It’s pretty good. I think so.

Kim: And that vehicle was riddled with bullets. And I believe the passenger side airbag had been deployed.

Adam: Oh, their vehicle…

Kim: Yeah.

Adam: Was riddled with bullets. Yeah.

Jerry: Oh. 38 bullets from the back of the vehicle.

Adam: Wait, when you say from the back?

Jerry: Like someone shot into the back of the vehicle.

Adam: Into the back of the vehicle. 38 times.

Jerry: Yeah.

Kim: Okay. Right. And not far, there would be four bodies and it would be confirmed and identified to be the bodies of Jose, Daniela, her sister Viviana, and cousin Irma. That were found near or in the vehicle. There’s conflicting reports.

Jerry: Yeah. Some reports say that their bodies were found in the SUV. Some say they were buried nearby. All the reports say that they were burned.

Kim: Right.

Jerry: And DNA had to be used to identify them.

Adam: Oh, because the vehicle was on fire too, I guess.

Kim: I don’t know. It doesn’t say.

Jerry: It never said the vehicle was on fire, but the bodies were charred.

Adam: Oh, so they were in an SUV in Mexico.

Kim: Yeah. So Jose, his fiance, his fiance’s sister and cousin.

Jerry: Right.

Adam: Driving home to the soon-to-be mother-in-law’s mom’s house. Clearly, we’re mistaken identity for some cartel thing.

Kim: You know, it’s not clear. It is really not clear. We have no idea.

Jerry: These people were not up to anything other than a nice night out with family. So they were either…

Kim: Just enjoying the holiday.

Jerry: Yeah, it was either mistaken identity or in Mexico, they have these kind of cartel checkpoints where the cartels will set up just little roadblocks and ask for things, you know, money or whatever. And it appears that they tried to get away from a situation and that the bullet holes into the back of the vehicle were what stopped them. So there’s no clarity on like what actually transpired before they were killed.

Adam: Gotcha. How deep into Mexico is this?

Kim: Central.

Adam: Oh, central. Okay.

Kim: Central Mexico.

Jerry: It’s an area that is a Do Not Travel list. I don’t know how to pronounce it, but this particular area is definitely on the list of places they suggest you don’t go because of the cartel.

Podcast’s Intro

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Adam: Well, does anybody get caught for this or what happens?

Kim: No, nobody gets caught. And it’s interesting because this feels like it would be random, like it was sort of an isolated freak of nature incident where this just happened. But it’s actually more common than I realized.

Adam: I mean, look, Mexico, you know, as I was doing those stats for Americans, Mexico is both the most traveled to place and also the most deadly place for Americans.

Jerry: Yeah.

Adam: I mean, where the most murders happen.

Jerry: No, America is actually the most deadly place for Americans.

Adam: No, but traveling. I’m saying… No, you mean traveling within America.

Jerry: Traveling within America is deadlier than traveling to Mexico.

Adam: Right. But I’m saying traveling outside of America, Mexico is on the top.

Jerry: It’s up there. It’s up there. It’s not at the top of the list, but…

Adam: It’s not?

Jerry: No, I have these stats for you, actually.

Kim: The state of Zacatecas, Mexico is, as Jerry mentioned, on the Do Not Travel. And it’s on the Do Not Travel for violent crime, extortion and gang activity. And it’s widespread there.

Adam: So they couldn’t find a different restaurant?

Kim: Well, I don’t know.

Jerry: I don’t know why they went there.

Adam: Why did they go there?

Kim: I believe it’s because they’re there. They’re minding their business. You know, his family has said that he’s taken this trip many times.

Adam: Wait, somebody lived there?

Kim: Yes, his girlfriend. Well, not there per se, but in that vicinity.

Adam: Right. But you got to just know not… Well, she’s not on the Do Not Travel list because it’s for Americans and she’s there. So she’s like, oh, that’s cool. Don’t worry. Man, cartels, you don’t fuck with those guys.

Kim: There’s apparently two cartels that are rivals. So there’s a lot of gang violence and a lot of gang activity.

Jerry: One stat that’s interesting. The homicide rate in Mexico is 28 murders per 100,000 people, which is higher than the United States. We have 7 per 100,000. However…

Adam: Yay, USA.

Jerry: However, despite our show and the headlines, 75 US citizens die typically in a year by homicide in Mexico, according to the State Department, which is a tiny fraction of the nearly 30 million Americans who visit Mexico every year. To your point, Adam, it’s the most visited country outside of the United States. So using these figures, we find out that the murder rate of US citizens in Mexico is around 0.26 per 100,000 visitors, which is actually lower than the murder rate of visitors to the United States.

Adam: To Ohio.

Jerry: So, yeah, on one hand, Mexico is actually technically safer than the United States. It’s just there are certain areas in Mexico that are definitely not safer. There’s also a lot of kidnapping.

Adam: Anywhere Kim can’t pronounce, I’m not going.

Jerry: That’s fair.

Adam: Is that’s a good rule.

Kim: I think.

Adam: That’s a good rule.

Kim: Yeah, yeah.

Adam: If you can’t say it…

Kim: We won’t go there.

Adam: We won’t slay it.

Jerry: It’s sort of a joke you make, like, don’t go to Mexico. But the actual murder rate for US citizens is not actually that high. It’s actually safer for a US citizen to go to Mexico than it is for a citizen of another country to come to the United States.

Adam: That’s telling.

Jerry: But these are statistics. So, you know, when you dig into statistics, it’s like, well, where are those murders occurring? Like, where are people getting murdered who visit the United States? Where are people getting murdered who visit Mexico? They tend to be in areas that are actually on Do Not Travel lists.

Adam: Not always.

Jerry: But there are some times where someone gets murdered in Mexico by someone who they went to Mexico with. Which might be another episode of slaycation.

Kim: Zacatecas is apparently a battleground to two of Mexico’s largest cartels. One is called Sinaloa and CJNG drug cartels.

Adam: Gotcha. They were driving what, like a black SUV that could have looked cartel-y?

Jerry: Don’t know. I’ve never seen the picture of the SUV. It’s a good question. And we haven’t seen pictures of the SUV. And one of the issues with this case, as with many cases that occur in Mexico, is that the Mexican police and Mexican authorities are not, how do we say…

Adam: Forthcoming? Cooperative?

Jerry: Right. With U.S. authorities on these kind of things?

Kim: Well, they’re probably afraid of the cartel.

Jerry: Or they are the cartel.

Kim: Both. I would imagine. That’s the interesting thing, because I could not get any clarity on what exactly, aside from the crime itself, what happened. Were they at the wrong place at the wrong time? Were they being followed? Were they sought out? Was it a crime of opportunity? Right.

Adam: And you don’t want to blame the victim or the vehicle.

Kim: Right.

Adam: Look, you should be able to go places and do things. But when there is the cartel situation.

Kim: And on Jesus’s birthday.

Adam: They don’t take Jesus’s birthday off.

Jerry: Jesus Gutierrez?

Adam: Jesus Cristo.

Jerry: So Texas, which borders the fine country of Mexico.

Adam: Also on my do not go list.

Jerry: Should be on your do not go list. I’ll tell you why. So we said 75 Americans are murdered typically in a given year in Mexico. In a given year, 2100 US citizens are murdered in Texas.

Kim: Wow.

Jerry: So you’re almost 30 times more likely to be murdered visiting Texas than you are visiting Mexico.

Adam: But those murders are bigger and better.

Jerry: So Greg Abbott should actually open the border in the other direction, perhaps. Make it a safer state.

Adam: Right.

Jerry: That’s insane. 2100 people are murdered in Texas every year.

Kim: That’s crazy

Jerry: Yeah, let’s go to Mexico.

Adam: And not Texaco.

Jerry: Party in Cancun. But to Kim’s point, the problem with Mexico is that they’re just not cooperative. It’s very hard to get any information. That is one thing you’ll say about Texas or any other state in America is investigations happen relatively transparent-ish. There is a process that’s followed. With Mexico, because of the cartel situation, law doesn’t work the same way.

Adam: Right.

Jerry: So we were looking into this case. We can’t find pictures of the SUV. There’s a weird thing where the Mexican police said that Jose was driving the SUV. And Jose’s dad was like, that’s absolutely impossible because Jose hated driving to Mexico. He didn’t feel comfortable driving to Mexico. It was a thing he said he would never do.

Adam: Yeah, but if they were drinking at the restaurant or something, who knows?

Jerry: Maybe. But then the weird next thing is, you know, some of the reports say the bodies were found in the SUV. Some say they were found buried near the SUV.

Adam: Buried?

Jerry: Buried.

Adam: Oh, yeah.

Kim: There’s a lot of conflicting information as far as that goes.

Adam: What about like Jose’s family? I’m sure they, you know, he’s got a big family.

Jerry: They’re devastated.

Kim: No, of course.

Adam: But I’m saying, were they trying to find answers? They still are. This just happened.

Kim: Yeah. The bodies were found at the beginning of the year.

Jerry: His family’s still trying to get justice. Their big thing is our son, our future daughter-in-law, the cousin, the sister have all been murdered and there’s zero suspects. Nobody’s been brought in as a suspect. Nobody’s been questioned. So they’re irate. I mean, they’re obviously very, just very sad. But they’re also, it’s like, wow, nobody’s being brought to justice.

Kim: And given the gang violence, it erupted into citizens of the surrounding areas held demonstrations.

Adam: Over this?

Kim: Over this. Yes.

Adam: And 38 bullets. That’s not a warning shot.

Kim: Right. And they were asking for the safe return of this family.

Jerry: Well, because initially the thought was that they’d been kidnapped, which happens a lot more in Mexico than it does here. That is absolutely true. People are kidnapped. There’s a money thing. And then the ransom, that’s the word, the money thing, the kidnapping money thing, a ransom, and then the people are released and they’re fine. So that was the assumption initially. And there was a lot of, you know, obviously anger that there was nothing really being done to find these four kids.

Kim: And family members had gone on TV, presented themselves on the news, also just pleading for the return of their family members.

Jerry: And it’s like one of those things where they, you know, she lived near this area. So she was aware you’re in a cartel area. We have friends whose families have places in Mexico. And you go down there and you’re aware the cartel is there, just things that you’re just aware of, but you don’t think like, oh, something’s going to happen to me. So it’s entirely possible that this was a mistaken identity issue.

Kim: Yeah, that’s what I thought. I mean, because also you figure, too, that the people that live there, you figure, are they going to bother the locals?

Adam: Right, we’re not bothering them. We’re not bothering the cartel. They’re not bothering us.

Jerry: There’s no rationale. There’s no reason for the cartel to commit the violence against these people.

Adam: But they kind of operate with impunity. And obviously no one’s doing anything or at the moment, right? No one’s doing much to solve this.

Kim: Yeah, it doesn’t feel like there’s really any movement in that respect.

Adam: Was Jose’s body returned home or?

Kim: Yes, in fact, his parents went and retrieved his body the following day after it was found.

Adam: Well, let’s see. Hopefully that was a really good meal at that restaurant.

Jerry: We’ll go out on saving that joke for a minute.

Adam: No. Just thinking like, I mean, what? What? You know, a couple of shots.

Kim: This is what I believe.

Adam: Oh, 38 shots.

Kim: Everything is just for jokes.

Adam: Happy anniversary, honey.

Kim: Anyway.

Adam: Well, I just hope they on Christmas Eve they enjoyed their last supper.

Jerry: Oh, man dude.

Adam: Too soon

Jerry: Like forever too soon.

Adam: Yeah What’s our takeaway?

Jerry: There’s no takeaway like you want to say like well don’t go where it says Do Not Travel but that’s where the family was that he was marring into

Kim: and he was a dual citizen Yeah, so he would go back and forth.

Adam: Do you think you’re safe? And yeah, bad luck

Jerry: This feels like a bad luck, really bad luck

Adam: Yeah, all right. So the takeaway is don’t have bad luck.

Kim: I think in very much the situation where being on vacation Your guard is down. You’re drinking your relax. I don’t know how helpful it would have been if they were on guard “What would that have done?”

Adam: You got to just rent that bulletproof SUV, I think, when you’re there.

Jerry: Well, there’s a piece of takeaway I’m going to throw out. I don’t know if we want to use this in the show or not, so I’m going to qualify it with that. Asterisk, I’m asterisking this, but asterisking this. So, the thing that’s interesting about this case is this is a guy, strip away the fact that his family was from Mexico and that he came to America when he was six. Let’s just pretend he’s a white guy who grew up in America, who was a very successful student, master’s degree, had just met his beautiful girl he was going to get married to, star on the rise at the architecture firm, and the two of them go on vacation to Mexico and get murdered in the middle of the night and their bodies are burned. Do we have the same reaction from our State Department, or is it a different reaction? I ask that because I think of the Natalie Holloway case and stuff like that. This is the same, someone went somewhere and something terrible happened. I don’t know how much the State Department or the U.S. government can do here because unless the local authorities cooperate, they can’t go to Mexico and do anything.

Kim: Well, it’s complicated too by the nature of the beast of the drug cartels and people just being fearful. I mean, to say, “Okay, well, I’m going to go in and I’m going to face the cartel and I’m going to…” I think that there is a lot of fear. People don’t want to ask questions. People don’t want to get in there and start involving themselves and then exposing themselves to potential danger.

Adam: Well, it’s just sad, too, because she also seemed like a star on the rise, right? She was doing well.

Kim: Well, they were a young couple. They were planning their lives together.

Adam: Was she going to come to the States and be with him here?

Jerry: Yeah.

Adam: And her family would maybe come, too?

Jerry: The plan was for her to come at some point. I don’t know about the rest of her family, but he was having no issues traveling back and forth. He was dual citizenship, so he was going down to see them. In fact, he’d gone down the year before to ask her father for permission to marry the daughter and that family was super excited. So, you know, they were really traversing both countries and I don’t think they had any sense of anything was going to happen. Because the thing is, if you live in Mexico, especially if you live in this area that’s next to a cartel area, my point is you’re aware enough of it that you know what not to do. There’s just a bunch of things you just shouldn’t do. That’s why I think it’s very unlikely that they did anything to trigger this. It feels like someone in the cartel made a mistake or something or something went just really wrong in an interaction.

Adam: Right.

Kim: That would be my hypothesis.

Adam: Excellent.

Jerry: But again, we’re basing this on such little, like we have so little information because the Mexican authorities have like just released nothing, like next to nothing. So this would be a good one for our listeners to dig into this case of Jose Malicio Gutierrez and his fiancee to see if there’s something that we’re not seeing. Maybe there’s more information. You know, it’s a very opaque case that would be wonderful if there was some more resolution and if there was some someone brought to justice for it, for murdering four people who were just out having a nice night out on Christmas Eve. Yeah.

Adam: Christmas Eve.

Kim: Yeah. I mean, the interesting thing too is they’re not even the only ones. You know, when I was researching and reading, I found that there was actually a couple of other Mexican nationals, rather they were born in Mexico.

Adam: That same night?

Kim: No, not that same night.

Adam: What?

Kim: Dumb motherfucker. But anyway.

Jerry: Wow. Happy anniversary

Adam: Yeah. Can’t wait for Christmas Eve.

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Kim: So there was a gentleman by the name of Cesar Salazar who was visiting from Los Angeles, California to spend time with his family in an area not far. Notice how I say that. I don’t even attempt to name that.

Jerry: It’s another area with a lot of X’s and Z’s in the name that we’re not going to try.

Kim: And in the month of June, he would go visit his cousin and a month later they would find their bodies in a shallow grave.

Adam: Well, your rule stands. If you can’t pronounce it, don’t go.

Kim: It’s a lot. There’s a lot going on that I believe has to do with the fact that you don’t want to confront a dangerous situation. Right.

Adam: Well, look, Kim, if our daughter met somebody who lived in an area that was cartel heavy, would we be like, yeah, go back and forth. It’s cool.

Kim: But at the end of the day, if your kid’s an adult, you can at this point only make suggestions

Adam: And take her passport.

Kim: Right.

Adam: Like you wouldn’t know. Why are you pretending like I’m the overprotected one?

Kim: Yeah, I guess it wouldn’t matter if she was 36 years old. Right.

Adam: Probably not.

Kim: Or if he was 36, any body that you love and care about, you want to do everything you can to protect them. But at the end of the day,

Adam: You’re going to be pretty old, though, when she’s 36.

Kim: Oh, my God. What the hell is wrong with you? Why are you pondering this madness?

Adam: I’m just saying it’s going to be hard to steal a passport away. More like 80. “I’m going to get you a passport. Why did you go to Mexico?”

Jerry: Just one other side note about the cartels and stuff is like one of the reasons that they don’t do a lot of arrests and, you know, bring them to justice is that any time the…

Adam: Because America loves weed.

Jerry: Well, yes, but we get most of our weed from America now. Most weed’s grown in America now.

Adam: Right.

Jerry: It’s the other things. What is the stuff that’s coming from Mexico now?

Adam: Meth. Fentanyl or whatever.

Jerry: Fentanyl, I guess, is supposed to come from Mexico. Cocaine, I think, is that Mexico these days? Josh, where are you getting your cocaine? Columbia?

Josh: I don’t know. [Inaudible 00:37:13]

Jerry: I don’t know what drugs are coming from Mexico.

Adam: Other stuff.

Jerry: Yeah. So they are the leading suppliers of cocaine, heroin, meth. Whoever said meth?

Adam: I said meth.

Jerry: And other illicit narcotics. Weed is not a thing.

Adam: Oh, man.

Jerry: Some cannabis. Some cannabis. Oh, MDMA. Do not buy MDMA from Mexico. That’s my State Department warning.

Kim: What is that?

Adam: Like the modern version of ecstasy.

Kim: Oh.

Adam: Yeah. Good cover, Kim. No one will suspect you now. Ask Gia. There’s no ecstasy with my wife.

Kim: You got that right.

Jerry: Wow. And this is the best anniversary episode ever.

Adam: Exactly.

Jerry: Okay. So now that we’ve established that we are old and don’t know what drugs are, actually, does anyone know what drugs are coming? Like if you went out on the street and said, hey, do you know what drugs are coming from Mexico since we’re having this drug war? I think most people would probably say weed. Right. But that’s not the main issue.

Adam: That’s what an idiot would say. Like me.

Jerry: Okay. So going back to my earlier point for a second. So the reason that they don’t make a lot of arrests with the cartels or bring in cartel people for questioning is that typically when they do that …

Kim: They get killed.

Jerry: It’s not that they get killed. What the cartel does is they’ll go and they’ll just start burning the town. Right. So they’ll go and they’ll burn people’s stores. They don’t actually go kill people, but they go just do a lot of property damage and they let all the citizens know this is because your mayor or police or whoever decided to bring so and so in for questioning.

Adam: Right.

Jerry: And so just to avoid that kind of political mess, they just don’t do it.

Adam: All right

Jerry: It’s a good tip. If you get arrested in the United States, just have your friends burn a bunch of houses and see how that goes.

Adam: Okay.

Jerry: Not a good tip.

Adam: Not a good tip.

Jerry: Not a pro tip.

Adam: Not a pro tip.

Jerry: Getting a lot of concerned looks in the room right now.

Adam: And on that note, maybe we should bring this chapter of Slaycation to a close. Well, thank you all for listening and Slaycating with us.

Jerry: To be clear, when I said to burn the houses, to have your friends burn houses if you’re arrested, make sure there’s no one in the houses. I want to be clear. This was not, you know, just…

Adam: Right. Right.

Kim: You’re like, here’s to property damage.

Adam: Or don’t burn the houses at all.

Jerry: That’s the pro tip. Don’t burn houses. Just go through the proper criminal justice system.

Adam: So it’s a very circuitous, logical takeaway that we’ve now done. Okay. So yeah, don’t burn anybody’s house down.

Kim:  All right. Yes. Thank you guys for listening and joining us on another episode of Slaycation.

Adam: You didn’t say it like with a down, like an episode of…

Jerry: It sounded like we were coming into the episode.

Kim: Yeah. Wait, what?

Jerry: Like another episode of Slaycation.

Kim: Another episode of …

Adam: Of Slaycation.

Kim: Slaycation.

Kim: Thank you.

Adam: We’re done.

[End of Audio 00:40:32]